WAG Is this realistic?

[headoverheels]

My daughter competed level 3 this past season and did pretty well, winning several golds and a couple of those were for AA. Her gym is big on uptraining, so she has been working level 4 skills off and on all year and has them all, plus quite a few of the level 5 skills. She has had her kip since last fall but is still working on getting straight arms. I believe she could compete level 4 next year with no problem.

We are moving to a new state in a few weeks. We've visited gyms there and we think we know which one we'll be using. Now, here's my question: She's almost 10 years old and would like to move up a little faster. If we're moving it might be a good time to try to do that. We'd like to talk to the coaches at the new gym and ask them to train her on level 5 skills this summer to see if she could possibly score out of 4 and compete 5. Is this realistic? Based on what I've seen in practice (and I'm there a lot), here's what she would need to learn/improve: straight arms on kip, drop kip from back hip circle underswing, flyaway dismount on bars, tucks on spring floor (can do them on tumble trak), full turn on beam (not consistent), polish back walkover on beam (can do it but could use more work on it). I think that's it, although it's a lot. And if she's not ready for 5 by the end of the summer, she can compete 4 instead. I think our gymmie would be totally on board with this plan and would work hard. She loves a challenge!

 

[livelifetumble8dx]

She would also need a clearhip, baby giant & a front tuck to compete level five bars and floor (Sorry if she already has those! My mistake.) Those are alot of skills to polish and get to compete level five! However i think if she works hard enough she could get the skills she needs over the summer. I am not a coach though so this is just my opinion. Best of luck to your daughter!

 

[txgal]

I agree with the above poster, but I would add this:

You didn't post about her psychological state. If the new gym does agree to train her as a 5, she will likely be put with a group older than your DD and very far ahead of her, skills-wise. This can be a bit discouraging for some kids. MY DD is a 10 year old L5 (training L7) and she had to deal with a large amount of discouragement because her practice group encompasses L5 through L8 girls; she is also the youngest kid in the group by almost a year (her group consists of 11 girls...she's 10, another girl just turned 10 also, one is about to be 11 and then there is a jump--the next girl is 12, turning 13 in June).

You need to make absolutely sure she knows that she is still lacking A LOT of the L5 skills. In order to successfully compete 5, she needs a solid BWO and full turn on beam; she needs to be able to do clear hips and tap swings with the right amplitude (it's a .3 deduction on each of those skills for lack of amplitude), she needs the baby giant and the flyaway; floor she would need a FHSO-FHS, front punch, and back tuck (DDs coach also requires her 5s to compete a switch leap as it is a necessary skill at the next level, but she can compete the L4 leap combo without penalty). You didn't mention how well she can vault over the actual table as L4 is the first level for the FHS vault.

I do think it is possible, if the coach is on board with it, but I would be concerned you're setting your DD up for a lot of discouragement if she begins training 5 and realizes just how far behind she really is.

 

[gymdog]

If she doesn't have a straight kip cast she probably won't be placed in level 5 at most gyms with highly competitive programs. But if she does well and perfects level 4 basics, she could be chosen for level 6 or 7 the next year.

It's more important to find a strong program than to find a team that just agrees to place her in the higher level.

Also, it will probably partly depend on what state you move to and when their compulsory seasons starts.

 

[Shoebug]

My daughter started as a level 4 gymnast 5 years back in September I believe. She did great, placing first in every event and AA (of course) in her very first 2 meets. This continued all fall. They moved her to level 5 the following January, Level 6 the following June, and Level 7 the next January. She always had the skills necessary, but she did not have them perfected, so in those next levels, she never really had "great success." Another problem was that she was 8yo and working around 13-15yo girls. There were multiple problems with this, as she was thought of as the team "pet" because she was so small, and was often ostracized due to the age gap. While the other girls were having team building "sleepovers", she was often left out and felt alone. Her progress stagnated and she stayed level 7 for the next 2 1/2 years. She just finished her first season as a 12 y/o level 8, with girls her own age, and she is loving it. The coaches want her to train 9, but I think that she will probably stay 8. If I had the chance to do it over, I think we would have chosen to move up slower.

The point of my story is that her coaches at the time thought she should move up because of the skills she had, but physically, emotionally, and skill-wise, she was nowhere near mature enough IMO. It worked out in the end, but you need to take a look and instead of asking if you could move her up faster, ask yourself if you should.

 

[Quadqueen]

It's more important to find a strong program than to find a team that just agrees to place her in the higher level.

/QUOTE]

I agree with this. And, I'm always confused when parents say they plan to ask the gym/coach to have their kids train/be a certain level....? Isn't that up to the coaches? It is in our gym. I would kindly tell them what level she did last year and explain what L5 skills she has mastered and which she is working on. They will place here where they feel it's appropriate.

 

[iwannacoach]

"I agree with this. And, I'm always confused when parents say they plan to ask the gym/coach to have their kids train/be a certain level....? Isn't that up to the coaches? It is in our gym. I would kindly tell them what level she did last year and explain what L5 skills she has mastered and which she is working on. They will place here where they feel it's appropriate."

This is the core value that describes what I call coaches greed. A coach who's put together a capable team will always do what they can to put kids on the floor that do well and advance each year. As coaches we take pride in the progress of our athletes, so it's pointless to ask that your child be moved into a higher group.

If she's better off at the next level, they'll have that figured out soon enough.

 

[Fliptwisttumble]

Leave it alone. The new coaches will know what to do.

With respect to being put with older girls, I think a 10 year old L4 or l5 will find she is grouped with similar peers. If she is to train with older girls, that is for each individual family/coach team to figure out if it will work for the specific child. Given the choice to work with girls her age vs girls her level, DD has excelled once she was switched to the latter, both physically and from an emotionally happy perspective.

 

[headoverheels]

This input is exactly what I was looking for, so thanks. At nearly 10 years of age, she is the oldest girl on her level by a full year or more at our current gym, and I think that bothers her. The final decision is obviously the coach's, and we would never insist on one level or another. We would also not choose a gym based on whether or not they were willing to do what WE think we want. We don't know gymnastics the way the coaches do and would not overstep our boundaries that way. Our daughter is pretty realistic about what she can and cannot do safely and well, and even she wouldn't want to compete a level that she's not prepared to compete.

Part of our concern is if she moves up one level a year, it would take her until she is at least 16/17 to get to level 10 and from what I've seen here on CB, that's on the "old" side. And that's assuming she doesn't repeat any levels on the way, which doesn't seem to happen much (I mean most girls repeat a level or two on the way and I imagine our girl would too). After a while, seeing all these 6 year old level 3's at competitions starts making me think we were a little bit late to the party, if you know what I mean. And the 12 and 13 year old level 9's don't help. Then I read that compulsories don't count for much and the best thing to do is get to optionals as quickly as possible, and because we are moving and summer is coming, I see a potential opportunity for my daughter to get to optionals just a little bit quicker. But I would never want to compromise her safety and development to shave a year or two off her training.

 

[gracyomalley]

Scores and medals in compulsories don't count for much but form and technique learned do. Straight arm kips, good FHS vault, strong casts and swings on bars, proper technique on tumbling and form on beam all need to happen in these levels for a girl to succeed at L7 and up (probably 6 too - we don't do it and DD was in the "old system"...).

I would look for a gym that welcomes hard working and reasonably talented "older" gymnasts - and not one that will write her off as "too old" to make Level 10 in time. I would look to see that there are happy girls who work hard and seem to be progressing through the levels at their own individual paces. (You can sort of tell by checking out a team on my meet scores - see how many higher level girls have come through and how many repeat, how young they are, etc....its not perfect as lots of meets are not recorded there but it does give you an idea - if a team has tons of compulsory athletes listed and very few optional that's a red flag of either holding kids back or not being able to train higher level/teen athletes...). The key is that she be a a gym that will continue to let her work on up training no matter what level she competes - she may need a year at L4 but be able to skip either 5 or 6 or both with a score out of 5 (which is the much less fun level to compete as the scoring is very tight there compared to L4).

10 year old L4 is reasonable but a little on the older side - however, if that year she perfects her L5 skills, trains giants, works some trainers for higher level vaults, gets STRONG, etc....then who knows where she'll end up. Lastly, Level 10 is something very few kids get to - especially as she is still in the huge L3 pool right now. That's not to say she won't, but as a mom I find I need to constantly remind myself that although I can't help but be planning how many years DD or DS needs to "save" for the highest level, I need to remember that what they need is to be happy with EACH year and focus on those struggles/achievements....the kids change so much as they grow - DS took 3 years to learn his kip although he started gym at age 10 - then this year he's blossoming and moving 2-3 levels in a few months....DDs form is phenomenal and skill progression chugging along, but she hit fears at the end of L7 (age 10) and repeated - now back to wanting one year of L8 and on to L9 at age 13...but I don't know how all the emotional and physical stress of puberty will factor in....she's the one that everyone always thought would move fast.....and my youngest boy is 9 and just decided he doesn't want to be left behind, turned on the juice and has half of his L6 stuff in 3 weeks....YA JUST CAN"T TELL....

So look for coaches who love to coach kids, not love to win. Look for a gym with up training and a record of producing high level optionals. Look for a gym where each kid is treated as an individual (no set rules for move up, etc...). Be open with the coaches about what she can do and what her hopes are and leave the coaching to them....

 

[iwannacoach]

Just find the best program that fits tour child's levels of commitment, determination, dream, and tolerance for hard work. If she works hard enough to make you proud she may make it to Level 9. If she works so hard you worry about her she may make it to level 10. If she works hard enough to worry the coach.......