WAG Level 7 Bars

[CuriousCate]

Can someone clarify for me if a giant is required for L7 bars? Can a kid do two free hips? Do the free hips need to go to handstand? Thanks!

 

[Rockygym]

I think the answer is yes, and at least one needs to go to handstand for full start value, but she could get an angle deduction if both aren't to handstand.....but this is from L7 newbie mom...

 

[MILgymFAM]

No, a giant isn't required for L7 (or L8). Yes, ideally they need to be at or very close to handstand. My DD’s routine doesn’t have a giant for L7/8.

 

[wandrewsjr]

Giants not required, two 360 circles required(at least one a B), any height clear hip is a B. But each will be deducted up to 0.4 for angle. These are the USAG level 7 routine requirements, though, not particular gym requirements.

 

[CuriousCate]

Giants not required, two 360 circles required(at least one a B), any height clear hip is a B. But each will be deducted up to 0.4 for angle. These are the USAG level 7 routine requirements, though, not particular gym requirements.

THanks! Can you help me understand the 'up to' part? So if she doesn't go to handstand from the clear hip, she can get up to .4 deduction based on how far from handstand she is? So ideally, she should aim for handstand?

 

[Carly]

A giant is not required for L7 but I thought that a cast to handstand is. Maybe it can be a free hip to handstand instead. It's definitely not both unless something has changed because we had L7 girls doing cast to handstand and free hip without handstand that had a 10.0 start value last season.

 

[wandrewsjr]

THanks! Can you help me understand the 'up to' part? So if she doesn't go to handstand from the clear hip, she can get up to .4 deduction based on how far from handstand she is? So ideally, she should aim for handstand?

Exactly. The deduction is a bit complicated, technically a B clear hip only needs to be above 3/4 to receive no deduction, C clear hip needs to be within 10 degrees of HS for no deduction, receives 0.05 if between 10 and 20. But doesn't much come into play until 8/9/10 since all C's are called B's at level 7 anyways...the bigger the better is the simple way to put it.

 

[MILgymFAM]

A giant is not required for L7 but I thought that a cast to handstand is. Maybe it can be a free hip to handstand instead. It's definitely not both unless something has changed because we had L7 girls doing cast to handstand and free hip without handstand that had a 10.0 start value last season.

For L7 the SV for casts is given at 45 degrees, but with amplitude deductions between there and handstand. You cannot sub a clear hip to handstand for the cast requirement.

 

[Mish]

Also, depends on your own gym's requirements. Ours requires a giant.

 

[3rd_time_around]

Giants not required, two 360 circles required(at least one a B), any height clear hip is a B. But each will be deducted up to 0.4 for angle. These are the USAG level 7 routine requirements, though, not particular gym requirements.

2 clear circles, same or different, are required. The up to .4 is angle. If they go 21 degrees to 45 degrees below vertical, there is no deduction, but they get a lower Value Part. 46 degrees below vertical to below horizontal has deductions of up to .4.

 

[CuriousCate]

Also, depends on your own gym's requirements. Ours requires a giant.

Well, as it turns out, DD's does as well... and they have all but given up on her getting it for L7 in January. She had it on strap but then lost it and now seems unable to conquer her fear of them. They told her that today was her deadline. Bummer as she has everything else for L7, even on bars. Including the free hip to about 45 shy of HS and a cast to HS. Just that GD GIANT!

 

[QueenBee]

@CuriousCate I know it seems like a huge deal to not move to Level 7 this year, and it is a big deal to your daughter ((hugs)), but try to remember that your daughter is on her own path in gymnastics (as is every athlete) and this deadline to be placed in a level this year doesn't say anything about your daughter's gymnastics awesomeness or her awesomeness in general.

This sport is a marathon, not a sprint. Getting some extra time to build her strength and skills can be a huge gift, especially before Level 7. In the region my daughter competes in, Level 7 bars really do separate the athletes. Gymnasts who are pushed to Level 7 without really strong bars skills here don't do as well in general and the score differential can be demoralizing for some athletes (it is common to see 9.6+ bar scores in Level 7 here). If bars are holding your daughter back (but only the giant!) she will be a powerhouse when she does compete Level 7.

Good luck to her, and enjoy the season she competes this year.

 

[flippingtogether]

Ah, the giant. The dang giant! My gym requires a giant for L7, but my DD is on a slooooow path, so when she was a 7 a couple of years ago, and a VERY strong 7 on every event and every skill except the giant, we found a compromise. She did 2 free hips and it worked out fine. Her form is really good, so that helped. She could score, doing the best on everything else during the routine, right around a 9.0 on a great day. That wouldn't get her on the podium in our area on that event, but with other strong events, she would do quite well in the AA.

She, again on a very sloooow path, moved to L8 still working (and without) the dang giant. She started her L8 season without it. (again, yes, this is very unusual, but she was very strong on the other 3 events, great half piroutte, etc. and great other skills on bars). It took forever to get the giant. So she started the season by competing a giant on the low bar (yes, that is a thing, bend knees at bottom and it is an 'A' skill I believe), and kept plugging away, with a lot of coach patience, and worked to get her high bar giant by the end of the season. It took time, immense patience, etc. - but all's well that ends well and she got it. Still not her favorite skill, but she's kept at it.

I swear, these are the BEST life lessons anywhere - we are talking YEARS to get skills. Crazy.

 

[CuriousCate]

@CuriousCate I know it seems like a huge deal to not move to Level 7 this year, and it is a big deal to your daughter ((hugs)), but try to remember that your daughter is on her own path in gymnastics (as is every athlete) and this deadline to be placed in a level this year doesn't say anything about your daughter's gymnastics awesomeness or her awesomeness in general.

This sport is a marathon, not a sprint. Getting some extra time to build her strength and skills can be a huge gift, especially before Level 7. In the region my daughter competes in, Level 7 bars really do separate the athletes. Gymnasts who are pushed to Level 7 without really strong bars skills here don't do as well in general and the score differential can be demoralizing for some athletes (it is common to see 9.6+ bar scores in Level 7 here). If bars are holding your daughter back (but only the giant!) she will be a powerhouse when she does compete Level 7.

Good luck to her, and enjoy the season she competes this year.

Thank you for the perspective. I know you are right, and she is very young. I feel bad because she is super bummed that now she will lose the team she's been with for years and have to compete with a training group that she's never worked with. And the L6 team only does a couple of meets, all in state while L7 does many and gets to travel a lot, which she was really excited for. It really knocked the wind from her sails.

She also feels like she got short changed because her bars coach for L5/7 changed in August (several kids from the 5/7 group left, so the gym combined the two training groups and ended up putting the three remaining kids from DD's group into the other group with the other bar coach) and for whatever reason this coach would only give the new girls to her group ONE day of spotting on the strap bar before claiming they needed to get the giant on strap on their own in order to be spotted on pit bar. She previously had spotted her original 5/7 group a ton but I guess she assumed that DD's group must have had the same amount of spotting from their old coach, which just wasn't the case. So my DD has literally had exactly ONE day where she was spotted on two sets of giants and that's it. And she actually still got it on strap, but then lost it after a short vacation and can't seem to get help to get it back and her coach won't spot her. One of the other two girls got it on her own but the other was so put off, she left. It is just leaving a bad taste with us all how it went down.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Ah, the giant. The dang giant! My gym requires a giant for L7, but my DD is on a slooooow path, so when she was a 7 a couple of years ago, and a VERY strong 7 on every event and every skill except the giant, we found a compromise. She did 2 free hips and it worked out fine. Her form is really good, so that helped. She could score, doing the best on everything else during the routine, right around a 9.0 on a great day. That wouldn't get her on the podium in our area on that event, but with other strong events, she would do quite well in the AA.

She, again on a very sloooow path, moved to L8 still working (and without) the dang giant.

This sounds very much like my kid. We are very thankful our gym doesn't require a giant for her to move to L7. Or even L8.

Had all her L8 skills including a nice pirouette.... She finally had the DFG on the strap bar and was moving it the bars...... and then had an injury that will delay the start of her season. But on the bright side of things she feels she has it and it will come back quickly when she is released to full out practice. Me, I'm like those penguins. I just smile and wave boys, smile and wave.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

She also feels like she got short changed because her bars coach for L5/7 changed in August (several kids from the 5/7 group left, so the gym combined the two training groups and ended up putting the three remaining kids from DD's group into the other group with the other bar coach) and for whatever reason this coach would only give the new girls to her group ONE day of spotting on the strap bar before claiming they needed to get the giant on strap on their own in order to be spotted on pit bar. She previously had spotted her original 5/7 group a ton but I guess she assumed that DD's group must have had the same amount of spotting from their old coach, which just wasn't the case. So my DD has literally had exactly ONE day where she was spotted on two sets of giants and that's it. And she actually still got it on strap, but then lost it after a short vacation and can't seem to get help to get it back and her coach won't spot her. One of the other two girls got it on her own but the other was so put off, she left. It is just leaving a bad taste with us all how it went down.

I'm sorry to hear that. So they require a skill that is not technically required and make it difficult get it.

I totally understand why you are frustrated for her. You just don't feel she was set up to succeed.

 

[mom2newgymnast]

Well, as it turns out, DD's does as well... and they have all but given up on her getting it for L7 in January. She had it on strap but then lost it and now seems unable to conquer her fear of them. They told her that today was her deadline. Bummer as she has everything else for L7, even on bars. Including the free hip to about 45 shy of HS and a cast to HS. Just that GD GIANT!

That's too bad, 3 months is still a long time. But if they aren't willing to work with her on it, that's going to be hard. She is still really young though, and your wallet might thank you for the fewer meets and less travelling of level 6 compared to 7, especially when combined with the level 5 meets! I definitely understand why she is disappointed though. When does the level 5 season start for her?

Dd's gym requires giants for level 7 too. Luckily all the girls on dd's team have them now. I'm not sure what would have happened if some of them didn't. I do know that a few are still struggling to have a good connected series on beam and there is some pressure there to get it soon in order to be able to compete 7.

 

[John]

It's tough when the gym has its own requirements for levels. DD's gym also requires giants for Level 7. She came from USAIGC to USAG and completed Level 7 last season. She was behind on bars and occasionally could muster a bent leg giant before last season. She had worked them for over a year with her old gym with little success. I tell you this story only to say anything is possible with hard work. For her to get her giants her coach would require she do between 50 to 100 strap bar giants before entering bars rotation. It was extreme, she did them unspotted. It took only two weeks before she was doing them on the bars with her group. Be positive be supportive see if she can use that three months to meet her coaches requirements?

 

[CuriousCate]

I'm sorry to hear that. So they require a skill that is not technically required and make it difficult get it.

I totally understand why you are frustrated for her. You just don't feel she was set up to succeed.

This exactly. I've had a hard time putting my finger on why it is bothering me...I'm pretty good at staying out of things gym-wise. But, yes, this is exactly how both she and I feel about it... Thank you for helping put it into words!

 

[Aussie_coach]

It can seem very frustrating to be held back on a skill that is no technically required, but Giants are a gate keeper skill for many other skills. Lots of the bigger skills they will be working will be difficult without a ginat. If your DD moves up, she will still be working Giants while others are getting them ready to take t. The next level, then she will be working on trying to get them to the next level, while others are actually working the bigger skills and so in. She may find herself perpetually behind on bars.