Moving up gymnasts because they have already repeated

[littlegirlsdream]

Was wanting thoughts and opinions here. How do you feel about a gym that is willing to move girls up who are not completely ready to move based on the fact they have already spent two years at a level. Also some appear to be moved up to please the parents despite the child not being ready. It seems if a child is borderline they discuss it with parents and then parents decide. I feel frustrated with this mentality on multiple levels. First, I would never want my child to move up if she wasn't completely ready nor would I want to have to make that decision, that in my opinion isn't my decision to make. Secondly, I feel it is unjust to both the groups. The girls that should be at that level AND girls that shouldn't lose out in my opinion. It seems like the girls that should be at that level would not get enough time to perfect or up train and those that shouldn't be at that level would get frustrated and feel bad. I have to admit it doesn't sit well with me.

Is this a normal way to do things? Do many gyms do this and I am just unaware? How do/would you all feel if your daughters gym did this?

 

[wallflower]

Was wanting thoughts and opinions here. How do you feel about a gym that is willing to move girls up who are not completely ready to move based on the fact they have already spent two years at a level. Also some appear to be moved up to please the parents despite the child not being ready. It seems if a child is borderline they discuss it with parents and then parents decide. I feel frustrated with this mentality on multiple levels. First, I would never want my child to move up if she wasn't completely ready nor would I want to have to make that decision, that in my opinion isn't my decision to make. Secondly, I feel it is unjust to both the groups. The girls that should be at that level AND girls that shouldn't lose out in my opinion. It seems like the girls that should be at that level would not get enough time to perfect or up train and those that shouldn't be at that level would get frustrated and feel bad. I have to admit it doesn't sit well with me.

Is this a normal way to do things? Do many gyms do this and I am just unaware? How do/would you all feel if your daughters gym did this?

I think it sounds like a good idea. Some kids need to be moved up and given the opportunity to try the next level otherwise they will quit. I try my best to not worry about other kids as long as mine is getting what they need. It sometimes isn't fair to see a kid moved up when your is not, but there are so many factors and it's just they way it is sometimes. Not saying that is the case in your situation.

 

[iwannacoach]

I think that a decision to move up should be based on how much responsibility and commitment a gymnast and family are ready for. Not that I would move a child up just because they asked, but in this case, with two year's experience at the previous level, why not. Especially when you consider the "shelf life" of a gymnast and the amount of time it would take a typical eight year old to move from level 5 through to level 10.

Unless you're talking about really young kids at level 4, it's not like there's going to be a big surprise when they see what's in store for them, as they already know that based upon the experiences they've collected over the past two years. And two years is plenty of time at a level unless the child is simply incapable of further progress, which is a label I would never put on a child, and then they can always "drop back" if needed.

I guess you could say my definition of completely ready recognizes that gymnasts will stagnate, and uptrain for the rest of their careers if they have to wait until they have every requirement fulfilled on every event at the next level prior to moving up. The training cycle provides plenty of time for an athlete to learn and polish the few additional skills they need to "make it" at the next level, and if they move up now they'll have a clearly defined set of goals to work toward.

 

[GymGirl's Mom]

My DD sometimes needs a kick in the pants to be motivated. She needs to see others getting skills to feel the desire to work for them too. If she were to repeat a low level 3 years she would either 1. lose interest, or 2. become complacent and not try too hard. If the child was successful at Level 3 (hypothetically speaking- b/c you said "little") and spent 2 years there but does not have ROBHS and FHS- yes I would still move them to Level 4. I am not a coach, but I can't see how another year at L3 will motivate them to get the skills they need- but being in a training group of stronger, more skilled girls may give them the push, motivation, and role models to get the new skills. Again, speaking hypothetically here.

Honestly I really try not to think about what the coaches and gym thoughts and plans are for other kids. If I did I would probably go crazy- sometimes I see what I think are "weird" decisions being made and they end up working out, sometimes I see decisions I am surprised are not made and wonder why. I have stopped wondering, and really just think about my own kid, her health and happiness. It's hard to do at first, but the more you stop analyzing gym decisions the better you feel. I, for one, am not a coach, so I put my faith in the coaches and the program to make the decisions they see are best for all the kids.

 

[gymmomtoo]

Our gym would rarely have someone repeat a third year because the child would tend to lose interest in the sport. I also try not to get upset about decisions that aren't about my own child. Do you think your child was asked to repeat a level while someone less qualified is moving up?

 

[Quadqueen]

good question....does anyone think it makes a difference what level we are talking about? I have seen girls do two years at L4, L5 and L6, and they are told they still will not move up. One of these girls did a third year at the same level (5), and others quit when they were told they would not be moved up (from L4 and L6).

Thoughts?? I honestly don't know. I know it must be so frustrating for the girls to not move up after doing two years at the same level, but if the coaches think they are STILL not ready for the next level...?

 

[gymgal]

I think in cases like this, it is important that the parent has input (not make the decision, mind you) as they know their child best - what will motivate her, what her goals are (fun, cheer in middle school, high school gym, college, etc), how will she handle much harsher scoring for routines she hasn't perfected, etc. I don't know too many girls who would stick around for 3 years of the same level, particularly if the gym doesn't do a lot of uptraining.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

"Ready" is a subjective term. It can mean different things to different gymnasts, coaches, and parents.

 

[Aussie_coach]

If you have a number of kids who have spent two years on a level and they are not ready to move up then I would be seriously looking at the quality of the whole program. This can happen occasionally but it is not common for kids to spend 3 or more yards on a level.

 

[littlegirlsdream]

No my kid is not repeating she has moved up. I am talking kids that can't do connected back handspring or corect round offs really being moved to level 6. I guess my concern is that it frustrates my gymnast. She likes a challenge but with a very large team (20 girls) there is a lot of non sense going on and not a lot of challenge. I don't care really what other kids are doing but it sure seems to effect her over all drive, motivation and enthusiasm. I was just wondering if it was normal for gyms. By everyone's response it sounds like it is the norm. I appreciate the thoughts on it. It is always helpful to hear from others perspectives

 

[cbone]

This is merely an observation from my experience and is NOT directed at anyone here since I've never seen how you actually interact with your children. I have noticed that the parents in my gym who worry about when and how other gymnasts (i.e. not their daughter) are being moved usually are the ones that coddle their gymnast and inadvertently slow their progress. These are the parents that preach entitlement over hard work. If you prepare your gymnast to work hard and keep a good attitude, the progression in the sport will take care if itself under the guidance of a good coach. Our HC preaches that girls can move multiple levels per season if they are determined to. He has an Olympic gold medal. That's enough for me to trust his opinion. My daughter will move when he thinks it's right and will repeat when he says so.

 

[littlegirlsdream]

Interesting perspective. Not at all applicable to my daughters gym. In this case I believe the direct opposite is true. Coddling is certainly not the issue in my child's case, not that you were talking about her situation because your disclaimer clearly stated that. My question was asking if this was a normal course of action in large part because I don't know the Norms of this sport and it seems to be a source of aggravation for my kid, not the moving up of any one team member but rather the over all effect that large number of girls has on practice and progress as a whole . As I stated earlier I am glad that those who have responded have said this is a normal situation for the most part. I think the question is being read a bit differently than intended. I am not concerned about my daughter moving up or not moving up in the slightest. Really I am not concerned with any individual gymnast moving up or not. I am simply not understanding the process. My daughter has attended two gyms and the current gym is starkly different in its process of moving levels so I was not sure if it was normal. Previous gym did not move kids who were not proficient at skills in their current level, period end of story. Current gym takes a lot more into consideration, ie parents preference, gymnasts preference, years at a level ect ect. In turn, there appears to be more fear issues, more tears and frustration and less success come time of competition. Also there is actually more coddling and more crazy gym parents who gossip and judge. However I attribute that to the larger number of girls, 20 kids at a level is twice the size of previous gym at any one level, so by statistics alone it could happen.

 

[Quadqueen]

Littlegirlsdream, my DD's gym in general does NOT move kids who are not ready for the next level....if they've done two years at that level or not. They are typically told they will not move up, and then they often quit. I don't know what the right answer is....keep them in the sport by moving them and have them struggle or keep them where their abilities lie?

 

[gymgal]

Are there a lot girls that this pertains to? If so, then I would think it has more to do with the philosophy of the gym. That's a really big team for level 5. I'm thinking that means the gym prefers to allow everyone a chance to compete and is not hand picking the team. If this is the case, then yes, you will come across more situations where eventually you have to move the girls up. Not every parent/gymnasts is in the gym to win medals. A lot of them are there for the challenge, to get exercise, socialization. If team is fulfilling these needs, then they are happy. Dd's gym is more open than other gyms in the area in terms of who they accept onto team so they have larger teams at the lower level than most other gyms. They seem to handle the different ability levels well and many of the girls and the teams place well at most meets, including state and regionals. So it can work if the program is set up the right way.

If you are generally happy with the gym and its coaches, I would stick it out. By level 7 the skills just get too difficult for those who are not serious about the sport and if the girls are older, they find themselves pulled in other directions. You will see a natural weaning out. But if your dd is really frustrated and you don't like the dynamics of the team, maybe its time to look elsewhere.

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[ollieblueeyes]

If I understood your update, your daughter is frustrated because of the 'nonsense' getting in the way of training. This I totally get, I would be upset too. I know they are kids and gym should be fun, but I would not want my daughter's practice to be turned into a playdate w/gym thrown in.

I guess I would not be concerned if the kids were working hard, paying attention and not distracting the coaches from the training of the group. I sense this is not the case.

 

[Galadriel]

Thats what i thought you meant too.
Dd is in mixed training group due to small numbers and half the girls are not 100% on task a lot of the time.
Coach knows who is there giving their all, and DOES give them more focus, while bt the same time knows if she says do x, y , z while i work with other groups she can trust that it will be done and done as well as they can.
It works. And the gym doesnt want to lose the others.

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[Krystan]

I can see where dd would be frustrated with girls that are not ready being moved up if it is interfering with practice. If the girls are "on task" and serious about getting the skills before competition and not sucking up all of the coach's time, then I wouldn't really have a problem with it. If they are goofing off, not focusing, taking up coach's time with things they should already be okay with... then I would be annoyed. IMO, if they don't have the skills or are not on their way to getting the skills and/or they are not serious about improving/competing, they don't belong in JO. Xcel/PrepOp is a great option for girls who are not as serious OR girls who have one skill/event holding them back while they have higher skills in others. Perhaps that's not an option at your gym. I would think having the girls compete at a level they aren't ready for would frustrate them more than repeating would. But perhaps it's the parents that are complaining, not the gymnasts?

I don't think you'll be able to change their philosophy though. If that's *the way they do things*, I don't think complaining would do any good. If it's enough of a problem for your dd, maybe you should check into other options.

 

[2020vision]

I agree with the posters who say leave it up to the coaches. I understand why coaches get fed up with parental involvement because a lot of times gym drama comes directly from them. My kid skipped from 3 to 5 and the parents who were repeating 5 that year were kind a mean. Lots of underhanded comments about how my kid wasn't going to be able to keep up, etc. I don't know if she's moving up or repeating yet but whatever the coaches say is what I think is best. I trust them with my kid's gymnastics.

 

[d0nut_l0ver]

I think moving up gymnasts once they've already repeated is a good idea. It reminds me of a small lecture one of my coaches just gave our class...

"If you're struggling to get down the last few inches in your split, start doing oversplits. This will help you get down all the way."

So, if a gymnast is struggling to get the last few skills down in Level 5, but has already repeated Level 5 once, Level 6 is her oversplit. It will push her to get those skills that she needs. If she stays in Level 5 again, she will get frustrated because she can't get those "last few inches".

 

[beamer]

I feel your pain. But from the other side of the equation.

DD is 10 and an L5 who has spent two years at this level. Form is the major problem, along with a very weak handspring vault. She is making progress, however, works hard in the gym, is a great teammate and loves her gym and coaches.

She competed this second year with another girl her age who was a first-year L5. This teammate regularly achieved higher all-around scores than mine at meets, but is still struggling on an event or two. It looks like the gym may be encouraging the teammate to repeat. It is looking like my DD may be moving to L6, simply based on the fact she has already repeated.

This is a bummer of an awkward scenario and it drives me crazy. It would be great if they were both moved to L6. But I still want my kid to be moved...not in relation to her teammate...but because she is ready to go.

I'm pretty sure she would become discouraged and bored with another season of 5 and quit. She can work on the form and the vault at the next level and, in any event, will probably repeat 6 as well.

So that's the story from the other side. I hope the "moved repeaters" at your gym get their acts together and quit with the disruption and/or poor listening/attention!