WAG Nail marks - some honesty and perspective needed

[bookworm]

Also I guess I could instantly tell that she actually did know how she'd got them. She looked so anxious and uncomfortable and refused to even look at them or talk about them. That's what set the alarm bells off.

I agree a better relationship would be preferable but dd is totally loyal to her coach and wont hear a bad word about her.

but she will move up to a different group after level 3 thankfully.

I am so very anxious about stirring the hornets nest.

A few more things: "dd is totally loyal to her coach and won't hear a bad word about her"....exactly how an abuser operates...and your alarm bells SHOULD be going off

She's only level 3? I'd either get her out of there or have the coach removed or she'd do a new sport...I wouldn't leave her in a place where the coach is causing harm to her and intimidating her from reporting it

Stirring the hornet's nest?! I would SO be stirring it if this were happeneing to my kid...

 

[Iwannabemargo]

Level 3 in the GB is very different to the US - it means if she is "in age" she is on the elite track

 

[Flossyduck]

Yes sorry, should have explained the terminology. She is on the elite track and roughly level 7/training some 8 JO equivalent. She will move groups after compulsories in March. Gyms which can offer this program are widely spaced in this country. Also, they are subsidised and the fees are pretty low and they can afford to be very picky. None of this is an an excuse if the coach is deliberately taking out her frustration on a child and I get what you are saying, but if you do stir the hornets nest you are likely to find that your dd is no longer on the elite track pretty quickly. That would devastate my dd and it's not something I can throw away on her behalf without being very sure. What if I'm wrong? No other gym would look at her. The marks aren't there anymore to back me up an no other parent has mentioned anything.

If the opposite happened and the head coach sided with my story and my dd, then the implications for this young coach are very serious.

Given that several people have confirmed it is feasible for the marks to have been made by grabbing her to stop the fall then what I have is not enough to know that she is being purposefully harmed or it wasn't accidental. I need more before I put things in motion which would so deeply affect her or my dd.

If that turns out to be the case (and I am so on this right now), then I will not hesitate.

I am so grateful for this forum giving me space to think outloud and not feel so alone.

 

[bookworm]

.I get what you are saying, but if you do stir the hornets nest you are likely to find that your dd is no longer on the elite track pretty quickly. That would devastate my dd and it's not something I can throw away on her behalf without being very sure. What if I'm wrong?
.

But what if you're right and this continues, and now that your daughter knows that you are on to it, she'll be even more secretive, could you live with yourself thinking you potentially put her "elite track" ahead of her safety?

I know others have said it could have been "accidental" but the way YOUR daughter reacted and explained the marks (or avoided explaining them) says it wasn't accidental at all...

 

[AV24]

I'm so sorry! What a difficult situation! Take pictures of the marks, and jot down a note in a spiral with the date and what your DD said about them. I would just keep a very close eye on her and keep recording anything you think is suspicious. Your gut instinct is powerful. I might also casually mention it to the coach just in case she actually isn't aware of what she is doing, like others have said. Write down in your journal that you told her. IF you need to take this to the next level at some point, you need documentation in writing. Nothing is worse than he said/she said. Even your own notes go a long way as 'evidence' if it comes to that. I used to be a teacher, and that was always advice given to us when we were suspicious of some kind of negative home life or abuse to a student. Those notes would stand up in court IF they were written down, with the date, of course. I don't envy your position at all. I understand that you want to protect your DD from harm, but you also don't want to unfairly accuse someone of something of this nature if it truly is on accident. Hugs to you!!

But no matter what...that lady needs to cut those nails!!! Crescent shaped marks...ouch!!!

 

[coachmolly]

As a coach I have accidentally scratched kids or made a bruise, and I feel terrible about it after the fact. Even if I think I might have scratched or grabbed an arm/leg a little too hard I check with the kids to make sure, and if I did, I apologize profusely and feel terrible about it. So it does happen, but it's something that should be addressed right away by the coach- not something that either tries to hide. The fact that she was afraid to tell you, or felt she needed to hide it from you, raises lots of red flags. Maybe not necessarily that the coach is abusive, but that your DD feels at least some level of fear towards her coach. So like Bookworm, it's not so much the marks themselves that would alarm me, but the way your DD responded to them.
I would bring it up, as non-confrontationally as possible, either with this particular coach or with the head coach. Perhaps ask the coach in question what could have caused these marks, and if she is not honest with you, take your concerns to the HC, who could at the very least let her know she needs to cut her nails.

 

[bookworm]

So like Bookworm, responded to them. it's not so much the marks themselves that would alarm me, but the way your DD responded to them

This is exactly my point...we have had girls injured in the gym by coaches (one last week got an elbow to the eye and had a black eye ) but the girls and the coaches are all very open in explaining what happened ...no hiding or pretending it didn't...elite track or not, this is a concerning situation...

 

[cbifoja]

Well it's an interesting thought, but I'm confident that's not it for three reasons:

She has no nails at all - they are bitten to the wick so she just has soft pads
The marks were bigger than her nails would make if she had some. more like I would make
and honestly, although she's flexible she would have struggled to reach where these were

I'll keep it in mind though.

Great. Wasn't trying to add more worry, just didn't want to not mention it just in case.....

My daughter has long nails so she was able to do quite a bit of damage and still bears the scars almost a decade later.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

more likely than not that it's perfectly normal. the kids have to tell me when my nails gottem...

 

[Sasha]

I agree with the people who say you should politely ask the coach about the marks and see what she says. I think her reaction will help you validate or invalidate what you feel in your gut. I understand your complete hesitation to rock any boats, but a simple inquiry should be harmless if approached with a casual openness (to not give away your suspicions or seem accusatory at this point).

Fingernail marks as you describe them (crescent in a line) would seem to be less accidental than a scrape or bruise. I watch my daughter get 'grabbed' all the time for safety and spotting, and it's hard for me to imagine why a coach would need to dig in his/her fingertips like that, even for catching. My daughter does have a scar on her hand from a coach's fingernail that cut and bled like the dickens (from a male coach with short nails no less!) - but that was from a collision of her hand against his when he went to catch her and it just scraped at the perfect angle to make a cut. Pure accident. And of course there was no hesitation on her part to explain what happened and he was very apologetic.

And though I'm personally ok with some of the 'man-handling' where arms are yanked up straight and such, accompanied by some drill-sergeant-like yelling, I would certainly not be ok if the coach dug his/her nails in!

I would personally be very wary and concerned about these 'digging in' marks, given your daughter's hesitation to be truthful, and the association with 'frustration.' Though you don't have 'evidence' at this point, you now have increased vigilance in monitoring what happens from here.

I hope everything turns out to be innocent, or at least, an isolated mistake by a young coach which will be corrected.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

When a kid is falling, most coaches will reach out and snatch them by reflex. There's not enough time to worry about minor things like scratches; we have about enough time to think "KID IS FALLING; CATCH KID." Anything beyond that doesn't come until later.

I'd ask the coach about it, but I wouldn't worry too much on the whole.

 

[Midwestmommy]

I accidentally DID THIS to my daughter last year. She was carrying a heavy bag down the stairs and slipped. I was ahead of her and grabbed for her. We both ended up twisted and thumping down a couple of stairs. I had a bruise on my hip and she had four bloody crescents in her arm from my nails. I felt terrible, but it definitely wasn't on purpose.. And I hope I prevented a worse possible injury. Of course it couldn't have happened when she had a jacket or sweater on.....she was wearing a T shirt so my nails scratched her. I was waiting for us to have to explain ourselves but no one really noticed and the marks went away pretty quickly....

 

[Learning Parent GB]

The problem here is that you don't know and that is horrible as a Mum. I can easily believe that a child could end up with marks from a coach catching them - particularly if it was for a harder skill where you have to grab them quickly. But your DD's reluctance to tell me worries me a bit. Is she normally quiet? It could be that she just gets on with things. I could tell you about my DD having a bruise on her arm when her coach had held her while doing squat ons. Neither of them mentioned that. But when DD has had a fall including when she split the beam, her coach was very careful to have a quiet word with me a the end. In this sport I can think of so many plausible explanations for this, but something has made you uncomfortable about the way your DD told you so having a polite chat with the coach can't do any harm. I hope that she says, oh yes, she did have a tough fall but she seemed fine so I didn't mention it. But you need to know.

 

[Faith]

I know I've commented her about how harsh your gym's rules are. I know elite track is tough, but the not knowing if they're going to compete until the day before, getting kicked off for the slightest reason, sounds like my idea of a mental breakdown!

However I do remember you saying inside the gym it's a good environment, and they do care for the kids. From this thread though, it doesn't sound like it is any more. Is this coach new? Does she fit with the general gym ethos? How long has she been coaching DD?

Toughie.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

A bunch of freehips with a ton of spotting equals bruising and scratches in the very areas described (if you have nails). So I can at the very least vouch for that aspect. The positive is, she is getting spotted and will learn the trick faster.

Edit/Add, also, it's totally okay to tell the coach what is happening. She probably doesn't realize that her nails are digging in.

 

[Flossyduck]

Ok, back from gym and feeling reassured, a little. Some very wise comments above which have steadied both my nerve and my resolve. It seems most of the coaches are saying that this could easily happen and does happen by accident, which is good to hear. But I definitely need to keep an eye out.

I spoke to dd a little more tonight and asked if she had felt her coach had been rough or had hurt her before, even accidently, and she was insistent that this was a no, that she had grabbed at her to stop her falling and then pulled her up to handstand and that is when she thought the nails might have made marks. She agreed that it wasn't acceptable for anyone in the gym to make her unhappy or hurt her and accepted why I was worried. I asked if she thought coach had dug her nails in because she was frustrated and she wasn't sure and said she had to grab at her and pull her up and that it was obvious that she was frustrated, but couldn't say if coach knew she'd dug her nails in or not.

I've got to maintain my dd's trust and she needs to be able to tell me things in confidence.

To answer your question Faith - The coach hasn't been there all that long, (a year or so?) but she isn't brand new. They rearranged all the groups in summer (bit of an influx from other gyms over the year) and dd ended up in her group. I can see dd isn't one of her favourites, but you can't get on with everybody and there have always been coaches dd has preferred and who have 'got' her. The boot has been on the other foot before. It's never concerned me. I do still love the way the coaching 'team' works and the overall gym environment is definitely caring and positive. There's a lot of pride in the girls achievements and lots of support. Communication is awful and there are times when the parents have to pick up the pieces when late decisions are made about comps and hours are changed and groups moved about, but the girls all seem very happy and get on well. Yes it happens that girls are pulled from comps and it seems brutal, but it's a couple of times a year to one or two girls and I've never known any girl leave as a result, it's the parents that sweat it. I think I've got used to that aspect now and prepared for it. The coaches have their own groups but also watch out for each others gymnasts, praise them as they walk through and notice things, give them tips, take over if the coach is late or sick. So overall I'm really happy with the gym still. This coach is young and she is moody, but thus far I'm impressed with her actual coaching and dd has a clutch of medals because of her and doesn't require her to be a 'friend'.

This has shaken me a bit because I have been feeling pretty contented and positive. I feel better now and I'm going to stay vigilant but try not to over react.

Thanks guys.

 

[GymBee97]

Oh god... yes red flags are dancing, my mummy alarm is screaming, but I do need to be patient and much more sure of this as the implications are huge if I were to take this up.

Thanks for the support.

Ok for me this says it all. Forget the gymnastics and your daughters wants for a moment. What other area in your life would you say "yes red flags are dancing, my mummy alarm is screaming" and not Grab your DD and RUN! If your DD loves gymnastics she will still love it at a place where you have no red flags waving or your mommy alarm going off. Your DD may not like it at first but if she loves this sport she will quickly adjust to a new gym, new coach etc.

If your Mommy alarm is going off full force then this isn't the time to be patient and have the wait and see attitude.
You are her mom and your job is to keep her safe.

Sorry if this sounds harsh but I would have been over to that office that next day to let the owner know and straighten this out instead of waiting and seeing.

 

[GymBee97]

I've got to maintain my dd's trust and she needs to be able to tell me things in confidence.


This has shaken me a bit because I have been feeling pretty contented and positive. I feel better now and I'm going to stay vigilant but try not to over react.

Thanks guys.

It is great that things seem to be working out and yes having your DD's trust is important but you also have to have DD understand that she needs to trust you, trust that you will always have her back and not allow her to continue in a harmful situation. She has to know that you will protect her no matter what she tells you and that she can count on you to do what is right for her too. Remember sometimes our kids will tell us things so we can be the ones to "fix it"

 

[Natalia]

Yes sorry, should have explained the terminology. She is on the elite track and roughly level 7/training some 8 JO equivalent. She will move groups after compulsories in March. Gyms which can offer this program are widely spaced in this country. Also, they are subsidised and the fees are pretty low and they can afford to be very picky. None of this is an an excuse if the coach is deliberately taking out her frustration on a child and I get what you are saying, but if you do stir the hornets nest you are likely to find that your dd is no longer on the elite track pretty quickly. That would devastate my dd and it's not something I can throw away on her behalf without being very sure. What if I'm wrong? No other gym would look at her. The marks aren't there anymore to back me up an no other parent has mentioned anything.

If the opposite happened and the head coach sided with my story and my dd, then the implications for this young coach are very serious.

Given that several people have confirmed it is feasible for the marks to have been made by grabbing her to stop the fall then what I have is not enough to know that she is being purposefully harmed or it wasn't accidental. I need more before I put things in motion which would so deeply affect her or my dd.

If that turns out to be the case (and I am so on this right now), then I will not hesitate.

I am so grateful for this forum giving me space to think outloud and not feel so alone.

If your DD is moving groups in March,then I wouldn't say anything.

I'd like to give my non Anglo/American perspective on this.....nothing happened.A coach left light scratch marks while spotting a gymnast,it happens.

The relationship between your DD and her coach is different from the perspective of the coach,your DD and your own.Your interpretation of it is the most powerful to you, but that does not make the truest interpretation.

Your DDs internal reaction to your questions might have been"how do I tell my mom what happened without mom making it into something that it isn't".

Perhaps the coach thinks your DD is focused and mature and might feel patronized by certain types of warm fuzzy compliments.

Your DD is not being beaten or insulted or ignored.

I know I have been guilty of creating boogy men where there were none.I absolutely understand the need for careful diplomacy in the very small world of Elite tracked gymnastics.It's tough.

You´re a brilliant mom for being alert and caring.

I just want to be a voice that says: It's OK,your kid is OK,nothing horrid has happened

 

[gymgymgymnast08]

Adding my $0.02, in my 13 years of gymnastics I got grabbed by a coach many times. I would rather have the bruises or the cuts from that then an actual injury from really falling! Several times the coach and I both did not even realize that I had a nail mark or a bruise. Someone else would point it out to me and sometimes I would honestly have no idea where it came from, but I knew that it was either from getting spotted or from when I did something stupid like bumped my hip on a table.

The coach probably doesn't realize that she scratched your daughter but she should definitely cut her nails either way! I'd definitely do what everyone else is saying, approach the coach about it but kind of play dumb about it.