WAG Nail marks - some honesty and perspective needed

[Flossyduck]

My dd normally gets changed herself after gym and gets dressed in the mornings in her room, but one day last week I took her a clean shirt while she was dressing and I noticed red marks around the back of her neck and on her back and when I looked closer they looked like nail marks. She refused to talk about them and insisted she had no idea what they were and no she hadn't been fighting with her brother or with anyone at school.

This morning I decided to tackle her again and just calmly told her I didn't believe she didn't know how she got them (they were pretty obvious) and I promised not to be cross but she needed to be honest with me. With huge reluctance she said her coach had dug her nails in when she was supporting her clear hips on metal bar and she thought she'd "got a bit frustrated".

Dd was so unhappy about telling me, got very anxious. I asked if she got frustrated like that often and she said no, only sometimes and then she said she thought it was accidental anyway and she'd had to grab her when she fell and that was probably when it happened. I said "you know that a coach shouldn't hurt you even if she's frustrated don't you, and that 's why you didn't want to tell me" and she nodded.

Now I'm confused, messed up and desperate to know... could this have been an accident? Is it possible to cause nail marks like that, still visible the next day, by just grabbing a girl to stop her falling? There looked to be quite a few... could the coach have not known she was digging her nails in? Has anyone else had this?

I want to believe this was a one off accident, but dd's reluctance to tell me makes me suspect she thinks differently or she'd have just come out with it. I don't know what to do and I want to cry!

 

[homer]

I suppose you have to take lots of things into account. Do you like the coach normally? Does your daughter...? Have you ever had reason not to trust the coach before? Do you ever watch? I cant give any real advice as I'm not a coach but I think I can see how sometimes they do have to grab them to stop them falling. I think maybe you have to look at the whole situation you are in and not just an isolated incident.
Hope someone has more concrete advice soon and in the meantime keep your chin up!

 

[LucyTRA]

As a coach, I can tell you that yes, we do sometimes have to snatch people out of thin air when they are falling. And yes, sometimes that can leave marks (if they are moving very fast, as they often are in trampoline which is what I coach, that could include bruises or nail marks) but that doesn't really make it ok.

I generally coach adults and if I was to hurt someone when catching them I would check that they are ok, done need ice, first aid, etc, and apologise profusely. I would then fill in an incident form to cover my back if there were visible marks. If it were a child I would check them over, give them the option to carry on training or rest, and speak to the parents when they came to pick them up, as well as filling in an incident form.

Do you pick her up from training or does she take herself there and back or get picked up by someone else? I would ask the staff if there have been any accident/incident forms submitted for your daughter in the last few days. If there have, it could easily be cleared up. If not, it still doesn't mean that the coach did anything terrible, but it means that you may have to do more digging. In that situation I would speak to the coach or any other adults that may have been around at the time.

Good luck and try not to worry

 

[Aussie_coach]

Yes! it's very possible. Us coaches put our bodies on the line every day to protect our gymnasts. Sometimes we get hurt and sometimes they get scratches. But scratches are better that cracked skulls.

 

[my4buffaloes]

I think you need to ask more questions. Clearly your dd was upset about it. Find out if this was a one time incident. If your dd normally gets these nail marks when the coach gets upset I would be more upset. A one time thing and it could have been a fall or two that resulted in the marks. I think you need to check out your dd more often. And I think you need to stay for practice more often to see how things are going. That will help you decide if you need to talk to the coach or owner.

Of course another option would be to play dumb as to how it happened and ask the coach what could have possibly caused such marks on your dd. She will either fess up that it was an accident or she will be more careful with your dd in the future. I would have some trust issues going forward though.

 

[Flossyduck]

Ok, thank you, this is helping.

A few answers then:

dd is only 9 and gym is an hours drive, so I take her and I stay. There's a watching area, but it's raised and behind glass and it's a big gym - so I can see, but not clear enough to notice detail. So no incident form and I was there.

She was doing clear hip to handstand on strap/pit bar. She swung under the bar and around to the top and into handstand, but her arms collapsed at the top and she was going to drop back down but coach grabbed her and pulled her up into handstand. So no skulls would have been cracked, she'd have swung back under awkwardly and not made the skill. She didn't check if she'd hurt dd. From where I was sitting it just looked as though she grabbed her and I could see she looked annoyed. There looked to be more than one grabs worth of marks...

dd doesn't have a wonderful relationship with the coach, but it's ok. Coach is very young and I think finds it easier to relate to some girls than others. My dd is very serious and quiet in the gym and a real grafter but not a chatter. I don't think she's as easy to warm to. There are definitely a couple of favourites who get praised more and laughed with and also get away with a lot more. My dd gets snapped at more and I hear a lot less praise. Does that give me cause to worry? No, it's hard to watch but it's human nature and I've reassured dd that coach gets irritable with her because she knows she can do it. Head coach seems to like dd and sometimes other coaches praise her and she soaks that up.

I have on two occasions seen the coach grab dd's arm a little roughly at the end of a skill to then pull her to one side and manhandle her into the correct required shape. I thought that unnecessary, but it didn't upset dd and it didn't hurt her.

I will start checking. I don't normally see her dress, but I'l make sure I go to the changing room with her more. I can see the coach is moody and sometimes seems snappy and dd comes out quite down. I have always just told her how I loved something she did, or how hard she worked. If I try to pry she'll clam up, but I will find a way to gently check that coach was in a good mood or bad mood and follow up if I can.

 

[Iwannabemargo]

I assume she was training in a leo with her hair up ? If so then from what you describe the marks should have been obvious.

Injuries happen, I have in the past grabbed whatever I could to catch a child on the way down and slow their fall, but as has been said I would then check the child, see if further medical assistance was required, and fill in the accident book and TELL THE PARENT.

I would monitor the situation carefully - I understand that you are in a higher pressure environment than we are but I would be extra vigilant until you can establish whether this is a one off, which it could well be, or something to worry about.

I would also make it clear to your daughter that she needs to let you know if it happens again - and maybe help her get dressed a bit more often ?

 

[Iwannabemargo]

cross posted

 

[Flossyduck]

Yes leo and hair up. The marks should have been noticeable but I guess they were quite small - a little collection around the back of her neck and a little collection lower down on her shoulder blade - could have been hidden and sometimes they show up more later. I didn't notice them until the next morning.

I'll be honest it dawned on me at about 4am this morning what it could have been, for some reason. Then I lay awake worrying and I quietly told dd I wouldn't be cross if she told me what had happened, but I would be upset if she wasn't honest with me. I was hoping to god she would say she'd been fighting, or her brother had done it - something I could have dealt with. I would have been so relieved and I really didn't want to hear what very slowly emerged from her lips. I had to promise I wouldn't say anything and I had to stay very calm, but yes I did say we both knew it wasn't right for a coach to hurt her unless it was an accident (after which she said it was) and that she must tell me if it happened again and we could work out together what to do. Then she got on the school bus and then I lost it!

So they could easily be accidental, which is a relief to hear. But I do need to be vigilant for a while and go to the changing rooms and maybe watch more closely when I can see coach is in a 'mood'.

 

[cbifoja]

I'm not really sure that there is a polite way to bring this up but.....do you think your child could be self-harming? I only ask because my oldest did and the way she started was using her fingernails on her arms. I know that I am colored because of that experience but that was the first thing I thought at first.

 

[Flossyduck]

Well it's an interesting thought, but I'm confident that's not it for three reasons:

She has no nails at all - they are bitten to the wick so she just has soft pads
The marks were bigger than her nails would make if she had some. more like I would make
and honestly, although she's flexible she would have struggled to reach where these were

I'll keep it in mind though.

 

[Iwannabemargo]

mine is a nail biter too - never had to cut her fingernails

 

[berrisweetness]

Why are the coach's nails that long to even make those marks. I echo what is being said. Watch more and closely. nobody likes to think the worst of their kids coach but we must still stay on the side of caution. Good Luck!!!

 

[MaryA]

If your internal mommy alarm is going off, pay close attention to it!

 

[Faith]

OK. I don't envy you this situation.

Firstly it is very easy to pick up little marks and scratches in the gym. My DD will often come out of training with massive bruises, scratches, grazes, even bleeding, and honestly have no clue as to when or how it happened. It is also very easy to mark kids coaching, just grabbing them wrong. Even without knowing, if the kid shows no sign of it hurting, you might think it was just a rough grab rather than actually marking. Some kids (mine!) will always say they're OK when you ask them, even if they're not.

I do remember when I was coaching acro a mum giving her 14 year old absolute hell for the "love bites" all over her neck and shoulders. It was only when they told us about them we managed to clear up that she was learning a new way of getting her top onto her shoulders, and if they got it slightly wrong it was leaving these bruises, without either of them realising .

So. Firstly I think I'd need to consider if anything else could have caused the marks. Beam? When DD runs under it during warm up she nearly always caught herself. Conditioning? I've seen kids sitting on each others shoulders for squats or pulling each other about in various ways. It might be worth bringing them up with a coach, admin staff or another mum- I'd do it no-blame, so something along the lines of "can you have a look at these marks, tell me what you think they are- they look like fingernails to me , and I'm worried something may be going on at school, but wanted to check it's not a known gym side effect first"

However, I think I'd be more worried about the coach/gymnast relationship. Elite is really high pressure and there needs to be a better relationship or she'll end up quitting.

 

[bookworm]

I noticed red marks around the back of her neck and on her back and when I looked closer they looked like nail marks. She refused to talk about them

With huge reluctance she said her coach had dug her nails in when she was supporting her clear hips on metal bar and she thought she'd "got a bit frustrated".

I want to believe this was a one off accident, but dd's reluctance to tell me makes me suspect she thinks differently or she'd have just come out with it. I don't know what to do and I want to cry!

A couple of things here: the fact that she had these marks and "refused to talk about them" would be a HUGE red flag to me ...and when she finally did talk about them, she thought the coach "got a bit frustrated" with her is red flag #2 and the fact that your mommy gut feeling has you ready to cry is red flag #3 ...trust your gut because if this was accidental in nature , when you mentioned it she would have said " oh that happened when coach so and so tried to catch me" but she didn't say anything like that and refused to talk about it...I would get her out of there or at least speak to the owner of your gym about removing that coach...

 

[Flossyduck]

Faith they're not bruises, scratches or irregular shapes. dd does get those all the time and she never complains. Most of the time when I ask her how she got a massive bruise she shrugs and doesn't know but she laughs about it. I've not seen anything like this before and they triggered an instant gut feeling, which I've not been able to shake. They look different - they're very thin crescent shaped marks in clusters, almost like a little thread vein but horseshoe shaped and all the same.

Also I guess I could instantly tell that she actually did know how she'd got them. She looked so anxious and uncomfortable and refused to even look at them or talk about them. That's what set the alarm bells off.

I agree a better relationship would be preferable but dd is totally loyal to her coach and wont hear a bad word about her. It is me who notices the little things - the looks, the body language, the giggling with the others while dd is still working, the praise shouted to the others and not shouted to her for doing the same. I think she misses some of it by being very focused. There are two obvious favourites who can do nothing wrong, dd and one other who seem to get the rough end of any mood going and two in the middle. Other mums have commented on this, but I think it's more obvious to observers. It's not sustainable, but she will move up to a different group after level 3 thankfully.

I did have another concern, indirectly related to this coach some weeks ago, which I raised with the head coach. The head coach had a chat with me but with the coach present. The head coach was very reassuring and made some constructive suggestions to the coach which addressed the issue completely,and which have been implemented. dd's coach looked peed off. I wonder if she has been taking it out on dd and I am so very anxious about stirring the hornets nest.

 

[GymBee97]

Ok accident or not you need to talk to the coach about this. Yes its a hard conversation.
Can it happen? Yes of course it can happen these kids fall all the time and some coach is there to grab them and break a few falls almost everyday. If the coaches nails are that long that they are leaving marks in the kids then its time for her to suck it up and cut them.

I go with if your red flags are having a parade in front of your face - you need to listen to that.

 

[Flossyduck]

^^^^ btw I didn't go behind the coaches back to talk to head coach. It was something only head coach could implement and I mentioned to coach that I was going to chat to her about it and she seemed fine with that. It was only indirectly involving her and it wasn't a criticism of her coaching at all but it did result in an unexpected change the head coach suggested, which I was happy with, but coach perhaps less so.

Oh god... yes red flags are dancing, my mummy alarm is screaming, but I do need to be patient and much more sure of this as the implications are huge if I were to take this up. There isn't another group dd could move to and at best it would poison their relationship more and at worse ... big things. dd is as likely to quit if I make her feel uncomfortable. I think she'd put her coach first!

I am trying to hold on to accidental. dd is making good progress and looking great in there and the coach really knows her stuff and works very very hard and dd is perfectly happy most of the time. I'm just so mixed up, but need to be calm and vigilant.

Thanks for the support.

 

[Becauseisaid]

I ditto talking to the coach. I would be very non-confrontational since I can EASILY see how trying to help a gymnast can sometimes cause marks.

Merely saying to the coach "Please be careful of your nails as I've noticed several cuts on XXX recently". This does 2 things. 1) Let's the coach know it's happening when she may not be aware; and, 2) Alerts her to the fact that you are watching and paying attention to her coaching behavior.