Parents Regrets

[gymmomof1]

All I can say is WOW.

My exact thought!!! Disturbing too.

 

[Muddlethru]

Absolutely no regrets! I love the sport. it teaches my daughter so much! Your "regrets" are not related to the sport itself but should be on the club you joined. That is unbelievable and never acceptable behavior by the coaches tolerating such behavior, parents maybe even encouraging such behavior and the kids themselves. They all know what is right or wrong. An 8 year old peeing on a teammates clothes? Are you frickin' (sorry but had to use drastic words) kidding me?!? That to me is beyond toxic! That is criminal. If no one told coaches about the peeing incident, that is tantamount to tolerating the action by everyone who knew about it. Sorry, I just can't imagine anyone I know would do that!

 

[motigymnasticsmom]

The coaches dont know???? Its my guess that the parents of the girl doesnt know either. Sometimes, instead of ignoring or trying not to stoop to their level, we have to teach our kids to stand up to bullies.


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[KnowNuthin]

I opened this thread because of a conversation I had with one of the parents I carpool with... Her daughter is a Level 10 gymnast that qualified to Nationals and placed on the podium (AA and otherwise).

I was surprised when she told me that had she known what was in store for her daughter she would never have gotten her involved in gymnastics... But this had to do primarily with the time commitment, the expense and the toll on the rest of the family (of several kids).

At our gym, the kids have bonded solidly (at least I can attest to that at the optional levels). My daughter told me just the other day that her best friends are her gym friends. I, personally, am happy she's a gymnast. The road has been tough both financially and otherwise. Our gym is a no-nonsense gym; they work the girls very hard. There's a lot of attrition because it's so demanding but I believe the result of all that hard work has made my daughter confident with a high sense of self-esteem.

With that said, it seems your situation is different. I would look closely at your gym and the current environment and consider making a switch unless the behavior you described changes.

 

[Natalia]

Well ,time to pop some corn and enjoy the latest episode of this saga.

The club held its usual end of season meeting.It started out with the usual niceties,the coaches thanking the parents for their support,a review of the competitive season,a few administrative questions.....and then I put my hand up and gave my little speech.

To make a long story short I stated that we choose to trust the coaches with the training of our kids and turn our attention towards all other aspects of our childrens lives such as their academic progress ,the friendships that they are forming their relation with their sibliblings...and we leave the coaching to ,well,the coaches.

Or we do not place our trust in the coaches and we go elswhere.

We cannot declare to have no trust in the technical skills ,or the psychological approach of the coaches but choose to send our daughters to train with them anayway.However ,the parents choose to coach their kids because they beleive the coaches are inept.

Kids are interogated about the training,what they have and haven´t acheived,how everyone else is doing and are encouraged if not cohorsed to train at home on the beam in the lounge or the backyard trampoline,they are promised rewards when they achieve certain skills...all this kills their spontaneous pleasure in the sport,they do it to keep us happy,rather then doing it for themselves.

The other consequence is that the girs are happy to see a team mate mess up.The girl of over invested parents has lost her joy for the sport but she is happy to win by default ,this leads to a toxic environment....so,please lets all back off.

The head coach tried very hard to conceil a smile and just said:Thank you for saying all that needed to be said.


The reaction to all this by the over invoved parents was to tell their daughters to keep away from mine at school as my child is a bratt,they demanded another meeting with the head coach,they now sit in their cars and do not step into the gym,when we cross paths they turn their heads in the opposite direction....I´m sorry,but I think their reaction is rather amusing.I´m a bit sorry they weren´t offende enough to choose to leave.

 

[cbifoja]

I have to admit that I would have been a little offended by your speech too. Not all of it because I would agree with some of it, but really what is it to you if someone's child responds well to a reward system?

I personally use a reward system for my child in many aspects of her life because this is very motivating to her. The rewards are small. I can't afford to get her a new leo for every new skill but she did ask me if I would give her a massage if she made her giant unspotted last month. So yeah, I did reward her for that particular skill with that reward. She also asked if I would get her a new saddle blanket if she made a certain time around some barrels. She didn't make her prescribed time so didn't get the blanket. But it was motivating for her to try.

I also ask DD about how practice went if I didn't stay to watch, how her friends did (out of love, not competition). I also guess I encourage her to do some practicing at home by allowing her access to a beam, tramp, and mats. I don't coerce and no child should be forced or guilted into extra home practice.

This environment does sound toxic. No child should enjoy the failure of another. That is simply mean. However, I think the message maybe went a little too far and perhaps didn't come from the most appropriate messenger. As a parent, I would have been thinking something along the line of "who died and made her Nadia?" if another parent lectured me in such a way. However, a coach should DEFINITELY be giving this message to the parents. And he should also get the bullying squashed out VERY QUICKLY.

 

[gymmomtotwo]

I would put her in the swim team my other two are on tomorrow if I could. She only wants gymnastics. The people are nicer, improvement and goal setting is much easier to quantify, it is fun for the parents who volunteer their time constantly, the parents are not looked upon as the enemy by the coaches. Should I go on? Yes I have my regrets and she hasn't even had a meet yet. It is so much easier in swiming. You go this time. If you go faster the next, you did a good job. The top four kids get on the relay. Period. No favoritism to worry about, no kids turned away at seven because of body type.
But her passion is gymnastics and we are committed as long as it stays that way.

.

 

[Natalia]

I have to admit that I would have been a little offended by your speech too. Not all of it because I would agree with some of it, but really what is it to you if someone's child responds well to a reward system?

I personally use a reward system for my child in many aspects of her life because this is very motivating to her. The rewards are small. I can't afford to get her a new leo for every new skill but she did ask me if I would give her a massage if she made her giant unspotted last month. So yeah, I did reward her for that particular skill with that reward. She also asked if I would get her a new saddle blanket if she made a certain time around some barrels. She didn't make her prescribed time so didn't get the blanket. But it was motivating for her to try.

I also ask DD about how practice went if I didn't stay to watch, how her friends did (out of love, not competition). I also guess I encourage her to do some practicing at home by allowing her access to a beam, tramp, and mats. I don't coerce and no child should be forced or guilted into extra home practice.

This environment does sound toxic. No child should enjoy the failure of another. That is simply mean. However, I think the message maybe went a little too far and perhaps didn't come from the most appropriate messenger. As a parent, I would have been thinking something along the line of "who died and made her Nadia?" if another parent lectured me in such a way. However, a coach should DEFINITELY be giving this message to the parents. And he should also get the bullying squashed out VERY QUICKLY.

Nadia???Pfft,I am so much more then Nadia,I am Douglas,I am Nastia,I am Marta,I am Valeri....I am the queen of gymnastics knowledge and wisdom.Bow down to me and I shall guide you into the light....or not.

Was I offensive ?Of course I was,I trully hoped that they would be so offended that they would leave,I failed,I will try harder next time.

The coaches might not have spoken out because one of these charming mothers is a member of the committee,her husband was a gymnast,when his daughter had fear issues he filmed himself spotting his daughter doing the skill at home,he then sent a video of this to the committee stating:this is how you´re supposed to do it.They are ambitious parents who have tried to spread vicious and unfounded rumors on the coach after the coach told them that one of their twin daughters should no longer continue in the elite track.

The most talented gymnast of the group injured her elbow,these parents were gloating that her path back will be long and arduous,most likely it was all over for her,psychologicaly she wil always be vulnerable.

There are no words to descibe what scum and filth these ambitious,destructive loosers truly are..

Oh! I have no LOVE for any children except my own,that is why I never ask what her teammates are doing,I actually don´t give a crap about her teammates progress.I guess I don´t have as much love to share as you do.

 

[dreamergymnast]

What was the opportunity outside of gymnastics? Just curious

 

[cbifoja]

Nadia???Pfft,I am so much more then Nadia,I am Douglas,I am Nastia,I am Marta,I am Valeri....I am the queen of gymnastics knowledge and wisdom.Bow down to me and I shall guide you into the light....or not.

Bwahahahaha! Love it!

 

[Kiwi]

I trully hoped that they would be so offended that they would leave,I failed,I will try harder next time. There are no words to descibe what scum and filth these ambitious,destructive loosers truly are..

Yikes, sounds like a real vendetta going here, isn't it enough that they don't step into the gym any more? I'd leave it to the gym management/coaches to sort them out.

 

[shelovestoflip]

Just curious...are there other gyms around or only the one your daughter attends?

I'd be out of that gym in a minute!

you mention she goes to school with them etc...

personally, I love that my daughter's 'gym life' is separate from her school life.

I wouldn't want her with the same kids 24/7.

If you have a place to switch to, you should look into it!

 

[lucyvp]

We just moved gyms due to a toxic environment. We had talked to the owner/head coach about it and were shut down. They ignored that fact that 3 girls ("the clique") have caused similar problems multiple years in a row for different girls - 1st year the girl quit gymnastics; 2nd year the girl did a double bump getting away from that group; 3rd year (my daughter) left the gym.

Honestly? It made my sad. I couldn't allow my daughter to be treated in that manner - and I was surprised how little fighting (virtually none) came from her when I mentioned a tryout at another gym ... makes me wonder how much worse it was than she let on.

I hate the competitive nature of this sport and when the coaches give the girls skill sheets and target scores for moving up? They become competitive amongst themselves instead of banding together as teammates against other teams. I understand it is an individual sport, but wow, they need a break from the competitive nature of it and need support ... when that doesn't come in a home gym, it is too stressful for these kids to deal with.

{rant over}

 

[Natalia]

Just curious...are there other gyms around or only the one your daughter attends?

I'd be out of that gym in a minute!

you mention she goes to school with them etc...

personally, I love that my daughter's 'gym life' is separate from her school life.

I wouldn't want her with the same kids 24/7.

If you have a place to switch to, you should look into it!

The reason I´m so enraged with some of the parents,one couple in particular,is that this is a pretty brilliant gym.It caters to all levels,body types,age,ability...But it also has an "Elite track".If you ask any parents of the elite tracked girls what they think about the programe the answer is usually along the line of: "Well its demanding,and you sometimes ask yourself if your daughter isn't missing out on normal childhoos fun,but then you see the pleasureyour kid gets from the sport,the friendships that are formed and you can't imagine taking this passion away from her"

Then comes our little group of gremlins,one dad is an ex men gymnastics coach,he's the dad of twin girls.One of his daughters made it very clear that she wanted to drop gym and take up aquatic ballet.This is a little girl who came out of the gym in tears for month after month.The coach had a meeting with the parents saying clearly that this little girl,although talented was not enjoying the elite track,at the very least she should move to the less demanding program even if it was just the start of the season.

The parents were infiuriated.The dad who is always helping out in the gym started spreading a rumour that a coach kicked a girl.He said nothing to the coach,or the head coach ,or the parents of the allegedely kicked gymnast.Just got that little story going around.When he was directly confronted he stated" I'm not sure what I saw,I was too far away."

This is normaly a GREAT gym,the kids are in the same school because they are in "sport -etude" which is a collaboration between the department of education and certain high level gyms in France.You really have to demonstrate your experience,kwoledge,respect for the girls well being,before the government gives the go ahead.

Soo,its just been an extremely dangerous case of toxic parents.

BUT the MOTHER of the twins is a member of the board.So simply showing them the door is not that easy,especialy in a government funded programe where politics can play a large part of the decision making process.

We´re on summer brake,so we shall see when they pick up agai.

 

[shelovestoflip]

Are there gyms in France that are not high level combining school/sport?
I'm sorry I forget if you said your daughter was on an elite track (and forget how old she is)

Depending on the ultimate goal for your daughter, maybe a different gym would feel better for your family.

As an aside, my two cents having nothing to do with your original question, but I might be careful exactly what I post, especially if you are not happy.

You give a lot of identifying information...especially considering you are in France and I think there are less French families on this list. You mention dad/ex coach/twin girls.....seems to me there likely aren't many out there...

Just a thought...this list is so great for information and advice. But I know of a few people that have had problems over the years I've been on here with giving too much info and running into problems at their gym.

Good luck!

 

[Natalia]

Epilogue to all the melodrama:

The group has been split up for over 2 months now.

DD is thriving.

We often hear how this sport is often a balance between the kid the parents and the coach.Perhaps we should keep in mind a fouth element :the group dynamic.We should perhaps occasionally ask :Is there some normal healthy competition between team girls,or has it slipped to the dark ugly side.

If you fear things are slipping,talk to the coaches.

 

[iwannacoach]

Epilogue to all the melodrama:

The group has been split up for over 2 months now.

DD is thriving.

We often hear how this sport is often a balance between the kid the parents and the coach.Perhaps we should keep in mind a fouth element :the group dynamic.We should perhaps occasionally ask :Is there some normal healthy competition between team girls,or has it slipped to the dark ugly side.

If you fear things are slipping,talk to the coaches.

I can't believe I completely missed this thread. Wow, what a story of how messed up things can get. The behaviors of the parents and children in the original and following post are not only egregious and hurtful to all of the children, offenders included, but also foolish waste of mental and emotional memory. Maybe that's why talented people who mind their own business tend to thrive while many talented yet malicious people lag behind. That's not true in every case because some may have have cultivated the craft of psychological warfare under the steely glare of their own parents from the time they could walk and talk. Combine training to be vile with brilliance and you have trouble on your hands..... what a shame, and waste of talent.

I can't imagine a child peeing on anothers clothes in a well thought out and deliberate manner. I hope it was at least a rash and impulsive response, combine with mass hysteria, with little thought to the action's implications.

The present question? Can there be friendly competition that's healthy and desirable. No, not in the context of kids openly agreeing to outdo each other. Children lack the mental tools needed for close and open rivalries. The only friendly competition I can imagine, would be one friend trying to catch up on a skill being done by another friend, and the two of them celebrating the positive outcome. Well maybe there's room for a child to secretly put a target on a skill a teammate can do, and being pleased when they learn that skil, and even taking pleasure in passing the teammate in all respects. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be Numero Uno, as long as it's your struggle, measured by your gains.

Awards systems. Nothing wrong with that as long as the reward is small, and a means of framing the achievement, and participation in the process is equal between the child and parent. Meaning the child enjoys the challenge of learning the skill, and the reward is just a means to provide focus. I think.....