WAG Typical Start of Season Scores?

[my4buffaloes]

Because kids understand that they will get beat. They also understand whats fair and whats not fair.
They want a somewhat even playing field.

I personally would like to see a mandatory your done with the level point as far as competing goes. You score x at states you are done competing that level. Or put repeaters in their own group.

Seriously, its pretty disheartening to the kids, when a bunch of kids are leaving a hotel for states to hear a set of parents tell the other parents that their kids are doing a Level 7 meet next week. And they are competing L5 for states. If they have meet ready L7 skills, clearly have done L5 and met move up score. They should of went to 7.

You said she didn't have L7 skills because she didn't have a giant. You don't need a giant.

Your quote below

You are nit-picking. The majority of gyms require gymnasts to have giants to compete level 7. No it isn't technically required, but almost everyone does them - at least those gymnasts that are successful on bars. It is a gateway skill for level 7 as it is such an important skill to move forward on bars with.

 

[gymcoach1]

I would be willing to guess that more gyms require giants for level 7 than not.

 

[strawberries]

I wish USAG required the giant. Requiring a giant for L7 is pretty standard among competitive gyms. It is such a fundamental skill going forward that waiting till L8 to even compete it is hard for a gymnast to recover from. Bars is tough enough w/o offering a year of delayed giants. I know in theory the kid could keep working it while trying to score well on their L7 Franken-routine, but a lot of gyms will let the giant uptraining slip during that competition season, and where does that leave you for L8?

 

[strawberries]

as an aside, why would a gym sandbag w/ the entire team? They only need 3 to win. Maybe a 4th for insurance....

 

[profmom]

There are teams around where we are who can go from L5 in one month to L7 the next month and score very well, but they also tend to be the teams where the kids making that jump are the youngest ones on the team or at least only have one season at L5. I see absolutely nothing wrong with giving a kid a full season of L5 before going to L7.

Passable L7 bars to passable L8 bars is very difficult without a strong giant and kip cast handstand in L7.

 

[wallflower]

No I'm not confused but I am about done.

I am not speaking about your child's specific circumstances. No one is speaking about your specific child. There is no need to take it personally.

I talking about a team of kids from the same gym who go from a one level to another in under a month. I am talking one level in the beginning of the month, to the next level before the month is out. And score high in the new level after 2 weeks at old. Yeah I am sure they took only 2 weeks to get skills they didn't have 36/37 Not.

Seriously there are gyms who hold kids back and have them compete down to win. It happens. You can agree or disagree but it happens.

Personally not that anyone gives a flying hoot for my opinion. I wish there was a point where you are done with a level. X meets at Y score. One time at states if you have done Z meets.

Really its OK to not do meets for a while and just train.

LOL I'm not taking it personally. Don't come make statements that it's not possible when it is. Or any of the other statements that kids who score high should not be in that level. The playing field should be even, they should learn to lose, etc.

I find it interesting that you always preach all different kinds of programs for different kinds of kids. Lower hours, set their own pace, etc. Yet on this thread you take offense to programs that are able to successfully coach their kids to scoring 37-38 without repeating levels or even uptraining because it is different than the gym you have chosen. It's disheartening to lose to those kids. They must secretly be level X while competing Y! When in reality they are probably at a gym with a strong conditioning program and great basics. To go to 4/5/6/7 is actually quite easy for talented kids who are strong and skill up easily.

 

[gymbeam]

.....

Personally not that anyone gives a flying hoot for my opinion. I wish there was a point where you are done with a level. X meets at Y score. One time at states if you have done Z meets.

Really its OK to not do meets for a while and just train.

deleted because I misread what you said.

So never mind.

 

[l.c.o]

@Deleted member 18037

In theory, yes. Take all the time you need to work skills and not compete. But particularly with older kids, the break doesn’t always go well. My DD had a long break and had some difficulty coming back. I’m not sure she really hit her stride even by the end of that season. Are some kids fine? Sure. But not all.

And FWIW, my DD repeated level 4 awhile back. Her gym only did mobility meets for level 5. She literally got her flyaway one month before the mobility meet, and had a very sketchy beam set that was hit or miss. She pulled it together and scored a 36+ a few weeks after level 4 states. Did they gym sandbag? Nope. She wouldn’t have been ready any sooner. Neither would have many of her teammates. In fact, she and her teammates first put together the routines over that 2 week break.

And for level 7 the following year? She did her first ever giant on the pit bar some five months out of her first optional meet, and first did a full bar routine six weeks out; despite this she managed to win state bars. She put together a new beam series at two months out, though that didn’t go as well. So I of course believe that sometimes kids can get ready quickly - sometimes the pressure of upcoming meets helps that along.

Do some gyms “sandbag”? Maybe. But believe me when I say I 100% believe that much of the time they do not. DD’s team has a few girls repeating in optionals, and I can 100% say it’s due to readiness in competing the next level safely. Will they likely kick some tush as they repeat? Possibly, and I hope so! But sometimes when optionals repeat, their scores go backward as it’s due to mental blocks/injury/growth/etc. But in DD’s gym’s case, I trust that it isn’t for team score... it seems we have nearly three million girls at one level this year. I think we’ll have a strong team without them.

 

[gymcoach1]

Seriously- who cares? This is just a sport. I can’t believe how many people spend so much time fighting online about gymnastics levels.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Here is the simple solution.

One season compulsory or optional.

Very simple. If you have kids capable to move, its likely you wouldn't wait a year to move them. If they aren't capable then they should be doing the whole season.

Seriously. I am very happy at our gym. My kid is where she should be. She is doing well. I have been listening to folks tell its just not possible to do gymnastics the way she does. Yet she does. And she even beats some of the stronger program kids sometimes. Rest assured neither I nor my child are disheartened. So we are good.

And you can give me bunches of specific scenarios. All valid.

Strong programs are great.

AND there are gyms that hold kids back for wins. There are gyms whose kids compete down.

Because there are strong programs doesn't mean there aren't gyms competing down. Its not one or the other. They are not mutually exclusive.

And I'm done.

 

[Pineapple_Lump]

I think what many are forgetting is the emotional and mental state of the gymnast counts too, gymnastics is more that simply the skills shown in competition. Personally I am horrified when I see video of young talented kids who are pushed forward on shaky skills or missing/bare minimum requirements and then seemingly feeling like a failure when their rocket pace comes to a halt. Many little kids are physically capable of doing big skills beyond their level but not capable of performing consistently and with refinement. If you have a talented kid - what is so wrong in leting them be successful and reaping the rewards for their talent (physical and coaching). At the end of the day, most of the top level tens were top 3 placers throughout a lot their gym journey.
There is confidence in doing well, and our most talented kids who will reach the top should be able to enjoy that along the way. It sounds harsh and trust me I really do feel for my hard workers who lack parts of the natural ability required to be a consistent podium finisher, but they still get enough recognition for their effort. On the other side of the coin, those kids who you know will do well in compulsory but lack some of the physical attributes to pick up the optional level skills should be allowed to capitalize on their skill set and do well because it won't be happening for them later on, they have a ceiling, no point rushing to reach it. Going slower/level a year may benefit them as a solid foundation, basics and physical condition may buy them a little more time.

 

[gymbeam]

Seriously- who cares? This is just a sport. I can’t believe how many people spend so much time fighting online about gymnastics levels.

Yeah, pretty craaaazy topic on a gymnastics discussion forum.

Maybe we should talk about politics or religion instead?

That should go well.

 

[gymcoach1]

Yeah, pretty craaaazy topic on a gymnastics discussion forum.

Maybe we should talk about politics or religion instead?

That should go well.

Okay valid point, I meant that everyone should worry about what level THEIR child is on and THEIR child’s gym. Not others.

 

[wallflower]

Okay valid point, I meant that everyone should worry about what level THEIR child is on and THEIR child’s gym. Not others.

EXACTLY. I'm not sure why some feel they need to make all these rules or judge the decisions gyms make. One season compulsory or optional. Simple solution. Simple solution for what?

 

[John]

I believe if you research judges cup meets you will find second year level sevens who compete in the judges cup. Then the next meet is level 8. This is more than likely done to get kids national exposure, but it fits my definition of sandbagging. I am also consider it to be inappropriate competition practices.

My two cents moving on. Everyone can have their own opinions and please everyone don't read post and think this is about me, it's probably not.

 

[gymbeam]

I don’t understand what you mean. What are judges cup meets?

 

[John]

It's a level 7 meet held in some states. The top 6 girls from each state go to the national judges cup. This year Portland Oregon.

Coming from IGC the had some rules on scores. I am not judging anyone here. I personally feel scores do not matter until a gymnast is level 10 or elite. Meets prior to ten are just the fun aspect of gymnastics.

 

[gymgal]

In fact in level 8 she didn't even have a flipping vault and was still scoring high 37's . So she definitely was not ready for 9.

I have to say that this is impressive! Around here, just doing a fhs VT in L8 will only net you roughly a 8.5-8.7 and that is if it is a stellar VT. that would mean that she was averaging 9.7s on her other 3 events. Congrats to her!

 

[gymgal]

So many are talking about giants being a gateway skill for L7. Yes, I know it is traditionally considered that and in general most gyms require them, but it is entirely possible to go all the way through L10 without giants and to hold a gymnast back just because of this one skill is ridiculous if she is capable of cleanly performing a substitute skill. You do NOT need giants to progress on bars or to score well at any level. You do, however, need a coach willing to work on finding an alternative, suitable routine.

 

[raenndrops]

I’m very sensitive to the sandbagging accusations when people base it solely on scores. You just can’t do that. You have to understand that there are truly coach/athlete combos that make it possible to score 37s and 38s all season- legitimately.

I will use my daughter as an example. Kid walked into a gym with zero prior athletic experience of any kind and exactly 2 years and 6 months later she started her Level 7 season with a 37.75 (and then one year after that started Level 8 in the same range).

Would anyone call that sandbagging? Would you really expect a kid to go from complete beginner any faster than that? No way! She worked hard to get what she needed- when she needed it. Ya, there was uptraining but never so much that she had all the skills for the next level.

So I will say again that there are coach/athlete combos that work really well. We’re fortunate to be in a gym with head coaches that know how to time things very well so that the team has mastered their current level with enough uptraining happening that they have just enough time after meet season to master the next.

I think sandbagging at L6 (which is NOT a required level) could be defined as "Competing L7 Routines at L6 and scoring 37+ from the first meet" ESPECIALLY if it is an entire team! If the routines at L6 ALL meet L7 requirements and are scoring that high, they should be competing L7. They would score well (Optional deductions are the same for L6 and L7) at level 7 too - especially if they cast handstand (L6 requires horizontal... with deductions and L7 requires 45º... with deductions).