Update: Decision Made

[NotAMom]

we take our kids away from their parents at age 3 (like some countries do...) and make them live, sleep, eat breathe gymnastics so that once they are used up they can't do anything else?

Not to condone it, but there is a huge difference between those countries and that of the OP. Gymnastics there is considered a national sport so some parents may understandably think that it's worth the investment. In perspective, other people around the globe have their children do things that are far far worse just to show and defend their national pride.

 

[NotAMom]

Can you tell us more about the "Elite" track at your DDs gym? What does the training schedule look like as she moves up? I remember that you said that she would be doing 12 hours a week during the summer (9 hours practice + 3 hours TOPS training), that doesn't seem too excessive. Many level 4s practice that. How long will she be doing those hours?

That is a very good point. Maybe we are all too quick jumping on Teamgirl over nothing. Based on the hours described, maybe it's all just a label the gym/coaches thought up to lure parents/gymnasts into the program. It is merely a more intense training that uses TOPS skills. With that said, I still fault the gym for presenting the program to the parents the way they did. There is something fishy about approach which I am too familiar with through another gym nearby. This can very well be a screening process that results in a very few good gymnasts with the rest either leaving the program, being tossed aside or topping off as poor performing optionals.

 

[MissBear]

Wow. There are strong opinions here.
I am very surprised at the opinions that without competing this gymnasts will become bored, as she is not experiencing success. I would disagree with this. Success to a 6 year old is achieving a new skill, perfecting something to get a 'good job' or finally managing x leg lifts.
Competing is a great experience, but it is not everything for someone so young. Competing can bring confidence, excitement and new experiences, but it also has down sides. Lots of time must be spent training routines, leaving less time for everything else - conditioning, basics, new skills. This is especially apparent at young ages when it takes a long time to learn routines and perfect them. Competing can focus a bright 6 year old on coming 1st every time. The 6 year old should be focused on whether she did her handstand the best she can, and if she had fun. My personal coaching philosphy is at this age meets are learning experiences, not an end in themselves.
As bog said, in the UK and Canda it is normal not to compete until you are older. In the UK it is not permitted to give medals/placings until the gymnasts are 8. Before that they get fun awards like 'most dynamic vault' etc.

I think a program that can provide a strong conditioning program, basic skills with a focus on form, and the ability to progress when the gymnast is ready, not thinking about if that skill is 'a different level', is perfect for a talented 6 year old.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Ella Bella,
Your daughter should be competing L4. Do not have her only train and wait another year to compete L5-your poor daughter needs to experience some success and have some fun competing-not just training. I'm not sure what all these coaches are thinking (the ones rushing these kids through the levels).... if these kids are truly that talented the "upper level" work will be there when they are truly ready to be there.

I don't think they should only be training routines, but the elements in the compulsory routines are the BASICS! They are not the only basics, they should be supplemented, but skipping/rushing all these kids through the levels is alarming to me. Jeesh, Coaches-WTH are you thinking????

I agree with the sentiment, but not the specifics.

Many of you already know that I have always been a harsh critic of the system of requiring female gymnasts to score out of each level before moving to the next one, as I think it puts to much emphasis on the specific choreography of the routines rather than on developing the basic skills themselves. There's no need for a gymnast to spend time perfecting the hand/arm motions for their beam poses or floor dance for a compulsory routine when they could be spending that same time working on the skills themselves; this would, assuming the coach is good, allow them to learn STRONGER basics than they would training the compulsory routines.

So in that sense, I can completely understand why coaches would want to skip level 4 and only do one meet each at levels 5 and 6.

However, all that said, I agree with the philosophy of going slow to go fast. It is better to take your time to train the basics and make sure the gymnast is physically and mentally ready before working the bigger skills.

 

[gymnut1]

Wow. There are strong opinions here.
I am very surprised at the opinions that without competing this gymnasts will become bored, as she is not experiencing success. I would disagree with this. Success to a 6 year old is achieving a new skill, perfecting something to get a 'good job' or finally managing x leg lifts.
Competing is a great experience, but it is not everything for someone so young. Competing can bring confidence, excitement and new experiences, but it also has down sides. Lots of time must be spent training routines, leaving less time for everything else - conditioning, basics, new skills. This is especially apparent at young ages when it takes a long time to learn routines and perfect them. Competing can focus a bright 6 year old on coming 1st every time. The 6 year old should be focused on whether she did her handstand the best she can, and if she had fun. My personal coaching philosphy is at this age meets are learning experiences, not an end in themselves.


As bog said, in the UK and Canda it is normal not to compete until you are older. In the UK it is not permitted to give medals/placings until the gymnasts are 8. Before that they get fun awards like 'most dynamic vault' etc.

I think a program that can provide a strong conditioning program, basic skills with a focus on form, and the ability to progress when the gymnast is ready, not thinking about if that skill is 'a different level', is perfect for a talented 6 year old.

Lots of regions give medals under 8 in the UK. I know you have to be a minimum of 6 the day of the competition. I've never seen any fun awards. You must be in a very nice region Wish there were more like that.

 

[gymcoach34]

I have been coaching a long time, and you can coach these talented kids to compete and do well in compulsories with great skills and minimal time spent on the routines. I know this for sure bc I have done it. I DO think its important for kids to learn the little things (hand placement, dance, etc) are important at an early age, and it doesn't take a lot of time to teach that concept.

I have some great kids who will do well w/ Tops this year (skill wise) and were Level 5 + 6's last year. They would do 3 compulsory routines (on beam, lets say)-then they worked their upgrades-back & front walkovers, back handspring, back tucks, switch leaps, etc. They could NOT move on if their routines were sloppy, so they did 3 great routines! They all either won states or were 2nd- so it is possible to have them compete with their friends and "train up". (and we don't do a lot of hours either!) I could skip them a level (they have the skills) but I am not going to. We are going to do every level and they will still be very young, strong optionals with great basics & form when they get there, with plenty of time to do HOPES & elite if thats the direction we choose.

I DO think its essential for kids to compete if they train in a group of kids that are competing. Its SO hard for those kids to stay motivated LONG TERM when their friends in their group are going to invitationals, getting goody bags, swimming in the hotel pool together- and then the 1 kid who isnt old enough, or "TRAINING ELITE" is stuck at the gym doing leg lifts! It may be ok for a while, but it won't work long term. Great coaches (Don Peters for one) have tried it, it didnt work and they now have the kids work through the levels.
I remember having a conversation a while back w/ a great junior Elite in her heyday (Jr National Champ) and she told me her only regret in gymnastics was she never competed on a team & had fun in meets when she was young. She was that talented kid who skipped compulsories and was doing leg lifts at the gym while her friends were all at Level 5 meets. She has since burned out and burned out in 2007 and she could have most likely made the 2008 Olympics.

Of course, its only my opinion, but it comes from experience, and is based not only on what I have seen & heard, and also from making mistakes. I wish good luck to all these kids that are being rushed through the lower levels- to have coaches say the compulsories are not important long term is just a cop out--- IMHO! You can do both and the gymnasts will be better off in the long term!

 

[gymjoy]

I agree with the sentiment, but not the specifics.

Many of you already know that I have always been a harsh critic of the system of requiring female gymnasts to score out of each level before moving to the next one, as I think it puts to much emphasis on the specific choreography of the routines rather than on developing the basic skills themselves. There's no need for a gymnast to spend time perfecting the hand/arm motions for their beam poses or floor dance for a compulsory routine when they could be spending that same time working on the skills themselves; this would, assuming the coach is good, allow them to learn STRONGER basics than they would training the compulsory routines.

So in that sense, I can completely understand why coaches would want to skip level 4 and only do one meet each at levels 5 and 6.

However, all that said, I agree with the philosophy of going slow to go fast. It is better to take your time to train the basics and make sure the gymnast is physically and mentally ready before working the bigger skills.

I'm pretty much a critic of our USAG system as well. Though I can see their side of the issue as well. Trying to keep those larger numbers of girls in the JO levels longer brings in more $$. But it does little good for the girls with the talent for elite unless they have coaches who can work the system as well as understanding the progression their gymnast need to be successful outside of USAG's progressions.

With that being said, I have a disagreement with your statement. It is the part I put in italics above. Because Artistic Gymnastics is not just about skills and tumbling, I think it is important for the gymnast to learn how to nail their choreography. It is a basic skill to be able to present a full routine with beautiful presentation of the choreography. I do feel that a good place to learn this is in compulsory routines. I also believe that good presentation of the choreo bleeds over into better presentation of skills.

I watched that with my dd when we moved. Her new gym pushed her not only to fix her basics skills, but to clean up her presentation and choreo. The two things working together made a huge impact, not only on how she scored, but how she learned new skills and choreo. It was the Whole Package, so to say.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

With that being said, I have a disagreement with your statement. It is the part I put in italics above. Because Artistic Gymnastics is not just about skills and tumbling, I think it is important for the gymnast to learn how to nail their choreography. It is a basic skill to be able to present a full routine with beautiful presentation of the choreography. I do feel that a good place to learn this is in compulsory routines. I also believe that good presentation of the choreo bleeds over into better presentation of skills.

Yes and no. Yes, it is important for them to learn proper presentation. No, there's nothing inherently important about the specific dance in the compulsory routines. Which is why I'm such a big fan of the prep-op system -- it allows the girls to practice dance and presentation without locking them into specific movements which may not suit their style.

 

[gymcoach34]

I guess the difference is those gyms who use the compuslories as the be all, end all, and never work any other skills, or form, technique, choreography, etc. The compulsories SHOULD be supplimented, and USAG states it in their text. If all the gym is doing is compulsories, then its not a good thing at all. I suppliment the training of my optionals as well, not just doing whats in their routines, etc.

I'd like to remind everyone that is in a rush to skip compulsories, or wants to bad mouth compulsories and get to elite, that the pre-elite complusories must be mastered and MASTERED VERY well. Its' all what you make it to train the gymnasts the best way you know how to I guess. Sure there are things I don't like about the USAG sysytem, but there are also things I do like. I take what USAG gives me and suppliment it to make the gymnasts the best thay can be!

 

[justanothergymmom]

In response to the original post, we were told 4 years ago that our oldest daughter had "elite potential." Her coach very honestly told us that there are so many factors that can hinder ever reaching this level (injuries, fears, loss of interest in the sport...)

At age 6 our daughter skipped L4 and began training as a L5.

My husband and I decided that we would watch and see supporting her but letting her guide the way. We felt that if she is lucky enough to make it to level 10 and is still healthy, strong and loving this sport, and if she had a burning desire to try, we would revisit the "elite issue" at that time.

Just thought I would share as we were in a similar situation 4 years ago. Best of luck to your little girl!

 

[Billy]

I want to make two points about the original topic. First, it is entirely possible that this training group is simply called "elite" because the coach believes these girls have elite potential. I highly doubt they are really intending on training 6-year-olds in the same manner that they would train actual elite-level gymnasts.

Secondly, even if a 6-year-old starts off on an "elite" track, there is no reason that she is stuck there for the rest of her gymnastics career. If it doesn't work out, for whatever reason, she can stop and go a different direction. There are many roads to Oz, as they say. This is just one.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

All the posts from this thread which did not address the original post have been moved to this thread.

Further discussion specific to the OP should remain here, and further general discussion of the advantages and disadvantages of training elite from an early age should go in the other thread.

 

[bogwoppit]

Wow a 6 hour round trip to the city and look what I missed! I think I need a cold one for the new thread.

 

[justanothergymmom]

Shawn, I agree with both of your points.

I just wanted to clarify that unlike the original poster, my daughter was not put on an "elite track". She is progressing through the USAG levels and is enjoying the pace without having to train mega-hours. (Our optionals only train 15 hours a week.)

 

[gymjourneymom]

Shawn, I agree with both of your points.

I just wanted to clarify that unlike the original poster, my daughter was not put on an "elite track". She is progressing through the USAG levels and is enjoying the pace without having to train mega-hours. (Our optionals only train 15 hours a week.)

I think you have made a wise choice with your DD 4nsmom. Allowing her to enjoy her journey in the sport, while not rushing her through. The big decisions can be made later. When she is better able to know what going 'elite' really means & all that it entails.

As I usually do I'd like to bring up the mental aspect going for the "big O dream". Or setting high goals at a very young age. We all know what a mental sport this is. But what some parents new to the sport may not realize is how mentally difficult it can be to change tracks later. I believe stepping it up later(when they are older & more mentally mature) would be better for the gymnast mentally, rather then stepping down later. To go from fast tracking or an 'elite track', to stepping down to 'regular' levels can equal failure in the minds of some girls. I've seen some VERY talented girls leave the sport rather then drop back to 'regular' training. It can be a devasting blow to their egos.

Which brings to mind another issue. At some point it becomes a difficult carousel to exit from for all involved. Say a 6 yr old is fast tracked. She's doing well, progressing. The family all adjusts to the gymnastics life style. By some miracle all is falling into place. Months turn to years & DD is sailing along as planned. Then one day maybe 10yrs later. She's really good!!! But she musters up the strength to tell her parents that somewhere along the road her dream changed. She doesn't want to do gymnastics anymore. How easily will those parents let her change her dream??? She may even be afraid to tell her parents knowing all they have invested in her training. Who's dream is it at that point? I just fear that setting such high goals as "going elite" at such young ages is placing too high of expectations on a young gymnast. Am afraid of it causing them undue stress instead of letting them enjoy the journey of learning skills & enjoying the sport at a 'regular' pace.

I'm glad we have different paths for people to follow. Having choices is wonderful. Hopefully everyone can find the right path for their child & situation. Please just keep alert to your DD's ques. Make sure is happy all the way along & that it is HER dream that is being followed every step of the way. This is their childhood, it should be fun...not a job they feel they have to go to everyday(they'll have to deal with that later in life,lol). Good luck to all of your DD's.