Uptraining

[nevertooold]

Just curious how much uptraining others are doing.

I have been surprised by some recent posts of some gyms/kids who are not doing ANY or much of any uptraining.

I work with developmental through level 6.
Level 4- we spend about 30-40% of our time uptraining.
Level 5/6 - less than the 4's, maybe 20-30%

Our season starts in Dec. and almost 1/2 our 4's have their kip, all have squat on jump to high bar, all are going over the table, some need help. All work regularly on cartwheel on beam, bwo on line or beam, fhs and dive roll, a few have front tuck on floor, all have front tuck off trak.

5's are more of mixed bag, 1/2 have a flyaway by themselves, most have front tuck, only a few have back tuck.

Just wondering what others do.

 

[Panda-girl's Mom]

My daughters gym she is a level 5 but trains with the level 6. I am not sure how much but she came home excited that they were doing baby giants,free hips and they practice backwalkovers on the beam. I think that is why she is starting out so good this year because last year she started working on her level 5 skills while she was still a level 4. I think it also depends on the coach she has an awesome coach this year who encourages them to do harder skills, where last year I think her other coach was more conservative and maybe afraid to let her try harder skills. I really think uptraining gets them excited and keeps them from getting bored.

 

[mariposa]

Interesting question.

My daughter's gym does a fair amount of uptraining skills for the next level or drills/progressions. I think it is the perfect balance. They don't spend 100% of meet season time doing routines over and over just to get 9.8s. They do spend time doing routines, portions of routines and many times as a reward, they get to uptrain after.

My daughter is in her 2nd year of level 4 at her new gym and she has her kip, squat on/jump to high bar, CW and BWO on beam, sometimes works BHSs on floor beam with a sting mat on it, works front tuck/back tucks into the pit, just got her cast to handstand on bars. They don't ever vault over the table though. Floor they work FHSs, ROBHSBHS, sometimes back tucks, flysprings.

She loves the variety of being challenged, but still getting to compete at the level she is ready for competition wise. Being her 2nd year as a level 4, she already gets bored if they do too much of only L4 stuff. She comes home the happiest when they were doing conditioning games or got to uptrain.

Looking forward to reading this thread.

 

[Aussie_coach]

In Australia basically all the kids do uptraining. Competition season can run for a long time each year. Generally beginning around March/April and continuing until National clubs in November/December. So uptraining needs to happen all the time.

Kids are generally only moved up to a new level once they have mastered ALL the skills for that level and will train routines while work skills for the next level. The Australian system lends itself towards this as we have bonus skills.

For example a level 4 would get bonus points for doing a kip on bars, or a cartwheel on beam and many more. There are several bonus options on each apparatus, and most of them are the skills for the next level so the kids can begin competing them as soon as they are mastered without having to move onto the next level.

 

[bogwoppit]

As most of our girls do not train from May - Septemeber and we have over two weeks off off at xmas our training is different. They train new skills from sept to oct, but then as the first ,eet is in Jan/Feb (usually that is, but this year surprise it is in Dec) they start learning routines. As it is all optional style here every girls in the gym has to learn a beam and a floor routine, which I imagine takes way more time thean teaching every child the same routine.

Our last meet in around May 15th and they are very spread apart so there may be a few weeks when they get to uptrain a bit, but when most gymmies train 8 hours a week or less it is a challenge. Our girls do not advance as fast as the clubs who train longer hours, but it does work for our rural area where some kids travel over two hours a day to school, let alone gym.

 

[MdGymMom01]

Since the MDL training hours are relatively a small amount compared to USAG, (we do 7 hrs a week), we don't start uptraining for the next level until February. Our comp season runs from December through May. Usually by the 3rd meet most of our girls have all of the required skills for the level they are competing at so uptraining usually starts then. In the summer there is some uptraining as well just to mix it up a bit.

Bog--it sounds like our dd's programs pretty much run the same way!! It is a challenge when the girls are in the gym only 2 days a week and they are all now learning seperate routines because of optionals. I usually have Dani do an hour private once a week as well just so that she can clean up her routines and work on those trouble skills on a one on one basis with the coach. She gets a LOT accomplished in that one hour!!

 

[bogwoppit]

Ours also train hose hours over 3 days, so that means a lot of the time is spent on warm up and conditioning too. MDL it's a challenge for the girls, but it does mean more girls get to compete this way. If they had to do 12-16 hours we'd have very few girls left.

 

[MdGymMom01]

Ours also train hose hours over 3 days, so that means a lot of the time is spent on warm up and conditioning too. MDL it's a challenge for the girls, but it does mean more girls get to compete this way. If they had to do 12-16 hours we'd have very few girls left.

I totally agree!! We have actually gained a lot of gymnasts into this program (2 from USAG) because they wanted less hours and they didn't want the intensity of the higher level USAG. I seriously don't think Dani would want to train 16 hrs in the gym that the USAG kids do. We have very few optional girls left at our gym in USAG. But it seems like the MDL team is growing!!! We have 9 Level A's!!!

 

[gymmomntc2e6]

DD's gym integrates uptraining into a lot of the things they do. I am nit sure of the percentage of time spent but we do uptrain.

When they warm up in lanes they work on some higher level skills like FHS & punch fronts, dive forward rolls etc.

We have 5 L4's. 3 have ROBHSBT, one has her layout. All are close to their Kip. 4 have squat on jump to high bar, one has flyaway. All have cartwheel on beam, 2 have BWO on beam and are working BHS. 3 are working on BWO. All go over vault table, 3 need spot still. They are also working cast handstands.

I think uptraining is important and I think it motivates them.

 

[floorlover14]

I am in level 4, but at my gym, we work on level 5 vaults at most of the practices, and we are always working on cartwheels on the beams. For bar, we work on kips and squat ons, and even level 3's work on front handsprings, back walkovers, and dive rolls. I believe it's very good that we up-train, so that when we get to that level, we can have amazing scores!

 

[cathiann]

Beth's gym spends quite a bit of time uptraining--even during competition season or like now--getting ready for competition. She was just telling me about doing some drill for a release move on bars that's a level 10 skill (no, I can't remember what the name is--and even if I could, I know I couldn't spell it LOL!)--that she was just doing this week.

 

[pixie flips]

Pixie's L4 group (6 girls) didn't do any uptraining last season. During competition season it was all routines all the time. After the season was over they moved her to the L5 group and had her training L5 during the summer. At the end of summer they told her she would be staying in L4 but training some days with the L5 girls. Now she goes back and forth. 3 days with the L4 girls and 2 days with the L5 girls, except the week of a meet. Then it's all L4 routines all week long.

The other L4 girls do not switch between the two groups like Pixie does, except one other girl from her team last season. Another girl from her L4 team last season was kept in L4 again but does not train L5 like Pixie and this other girl. The other 3 girls were moved up to L5. They are much older girls, 12 yo's.

The coaches are allowing all the L4s to do some uptraining this season. They've been able to work on thier kips, squat on's, cartwheeels on beam, etc. I'm happy for them but I feel Pixie was cheated last season not being allowed any L5 training until the summer.

I feel it retarded her growth. If they had occasionally worked some L5 skills during the season who knows Pixie may have been able to move on up. Instead she worked her bootie off to get the skills but ran out of time to clean them up and and now she wont be allowed to move up until her routines are clean. If she had been allowed to pick some of the skills up during last season she could have spent the summer getting the routines down cleanly.

I don't think their system worked for them and they realized it. Pixie and her friend were held back because of it and now they've decided to try some uptraining during the season.

 

[gymdog]

It really depends. I don't think you can come up with a formula for it, and there's no comparison between 1st and 2nd years at a level. Often you'll have 1st years at a level that this point in the year aren't 100% on all 4 events with on-level skills, and even when they achieve a basic profiency towards the routine, it's a little rough looking. I focus on fundamental skills. For example, show me like 10 level 5s and maybe 3 have a proficient tap swing. Those 3 might be 2nd years. Yeah, you can "uptrain" but you're going to hit a wall somewhere. On the other hand there are some compulsory skills I'll kind of gloss over and let the kids move on from. I don't expect perfection in all the skill sequences. There's something to be said for moving on progressively because it builds confidence with the "easier" skills and can lead to some additional gains in technique.

On the other hand I've seen some systems that uptrain TOO much. And the result is sloppy gymnastics. I don't like to see that and I don't see the point of letting L4s do RO archy whip back thing with bent legs. This is counter productive and a head scratcher for me, because I see it surprisingly often. Of all the "harder" things you could do with them, why do people allow that? Why not RO two handsprings? Because the RO handspring isn't strong enough yet? Well then it's just not appropriate to move on. Sometimes competitive gymnastics just isn't terribly exciting and takes hard work. I don't feel that bad about that. This is hard. The kids have to understand that sometimes they'll have to do "parts" of routines or drills over and over again and the payoff is in the long term. I can relate because I did gymnastics too obviously, and that's sometimes hard to grasp, but they have to understand that. We need some baseline profiency in gymnastics and a lot of time the first year of L4 and 5 you are trying to get that with a lot of kids, they don't have it. It's kind of hard for me to explain what I mean by that, but just like, not doing awkward gymnastics. Sometimes you have kids doing the skills in the right places and more or less making it all but the quality of movement is just not there. Now again I think progressively some advancement can actually help with that but there's a fine line...sometimes it needs to be taken BACK to bare bones parts of simple skills as well, and just repetition, repetition. We have no formal policy of how we'll progress the kids per se, but we do what's appropriate per child. We also try to keep kids on level where it's going to be a bit of a push for them...some will repeat due to confidence factors and need to work higher skills but for the most part we are usually pushing to get those level skills solid. So, that factors in. Obviously in a system like that you're not going to see a lot of training the next level skills.

 

[mariposa]

Gymdog,

You made some great points. At my daughter's old gym, she was uptraining during her first season of level 4 quite a bit, but she really wasn't ready and it wasn't helping her at all. She still needed the basics for L4 and was struggling at meets. Sure, it was fun for her, but I think there has to be a balance. Her old gym seemed to move them through the levels quite quickly though and it was hard not to get caught up in that as well and at the time I thought it was great because she was going all those big girl tricks, except they had very poor form or were really not safe.

Her new gym has the perfect balance, I think. They keep the girls challenged and wanting more, but also work on the basics and the little things, too. Just not soo much on the current level that the kids are left completely bored and not wanting to work hard. They also stress form and progressions, not just throwing a skill without working towards it for awhile.

 

[momofchalksters]

It really depends. I don't think you can come up with a formula for it, and there's no comparison between 1st and 2nd years at a level. Often you'll have 1st years at a level that this point in the year aren't 100% on all 4 events with on-level skills, and even when they achieve a basic profiency towards the routine, it's a little rough looking. I focus on fundamental skills. For example, show me like 10 level 5s and maybe 3 have a proficient tap swing. Those 3 might be 2nd years. Yeah, you can "uptrain" but you're going to hit a wall somewhere. On the other hand there are some compulsory skills I'll kind of gloss over and let the kids move on from. I don't expect perfection in all the skill sequences. There's something to be said for moving on progressively because it builds confidence with the "easier" skills and can lead to some additional gains in technique.

On the other hand I've seen some systems that uptrain TOO much. And the result is sloppy gymnastics. I don't like to see that and I don't see the point of letting L4s do RO archy whip back thing with bent legs. This is counter productive and a head scratcher for me, because I see it surprisingly often. Of all the "harder" things you could do with them, why do people allow that? Why not RO two handsprings? Because the RO handspring isn't strong enough yet? Well then it's just not appropriate to move on. Sometimes competitive gymnastics just isn't terribly exciting and takes hard work. I don't feel that bad about that. This is hard. The kids have to understand that sometimes they'll have to do "parts" of routines or drills over and over again and the payoff is in the long term. I can relate because I did gymnastics too obviously, and that's sometimes hard to grasp, but they have to understand that. We need some baseline profiency in gymnastics and a lot of time the first year of L4 and 5 you are trying to get that with a lot of kids, they don't have it. It's kind of hard for me to explain what I mean by that, but just like, not doing awkward gymnastics. Sometimes you have kids doing the skills in the right places and more or less making it all but the quality of movement is just not there. Now again I think progressively some advancement can actually help with that but there's a fine line...sometimes it needs to be taken BACK to bare bones parts of simple skills as well, and just repetition, repetition. We have no formal policy of how we'll progress the kids per se, but we do what's appropriate per child. We also try to keep kids on level where it's going to be a bit of a push for them...some will repeat due to confidence factors and need to work higher skills but for the most part we are usually pushing to get those level skills solid. So, that factors in. Obviously in a system like that you're not going to see a lot of training the next level skills.

I really am glad you posted this gymdog. I tend to agree with what you have said. I have seen girls uptraining before they have made their current level routines look "pretty" In other words, they could do the required skills but they didn't flow well or have straight legs, pointed toes,etc. Usually though, our coaches will see that and stop uptraining them until they have worked more on their current routines. My step-daughter really got her level 5 bars down this summer so they uptrained her on level 6 bar skills for most of the bars rotation each practice. After she competed her first level 5 meet in September, they decided she needed to be challenged more because she scored really well so they asked us if they could move her up to level 6. She is definitely challenged now and well in training. Uptraining worked well for her in this case.

My daughter is level 5 and has been working on her kips for a long time. She could get them but not consistently and with bent arms and having to pull herself up to the bar to get in the correct position. A few weeks ago during bars, she was having a bad bar day and one of her coaches decided she shouldn't go on strap bar (early giant training) that day. The coaches allow the girls to uptrain once they have completed their assignment well. She ended up crying because she was frustrated and because she didn't get to uptrain. Fast forward to this week and she has been doing beautiful full level 5 bar routines WITH beautiful straight arm kips. I think she is happy to have achieved that and be ready to start uptraining more than if she had been able to uptrain a lot but had a sloppy bar routine.

Case by case and clean-up those current level routines is definitely some sound advice. I do agree that the uptraining helps keep the kids from getting bored and can motivate them with confidence.

 

[nevertooold]

The kids have to understand that sometimes they'll have to do "parts" of routines or drills over and over again and the payoff is in the long term.

Agreed. And this is where we use uptraining to break the monotony. For Level 4 we may do 40 min. of repetitive work, fixing details and technique and then give them 5 min. to see how many kips they can make.

 

[nevertooold]

We need some baseline profiency in gymnastics and a lot of time the first year of L4 and 5 you are trying to get that with a lot of kids, they don't have it. It's kind of hard for me to explain what I mean by that, but just like, not doing awkward gymnastics. Sometimes you have kids doing the skills in the right places and more or less making it all but the quality of movement is just not there. Now again I think progressively some advancement can actually help with that but there's a fine line...sometimes it needs to be taken BACK to bare bones parts of simple skills as well, and just repetition, repetition. We have no formal policy of how we'll progress the kids per se, but we do what's appropriate per child. We also try to keep kids on level where it's going to be a bit of a push for them...some will repeat due to confidence factors and need to work higher skills but for the most part we are usually pushing to get those level skills solid. So, that factors in. Obviously in a system like that you're not going to see a lot of training the next level skills.

Yes it really depends on gym philosophy and system. If the kids do not have a good proficiency with their at level skills, then uptraining is not appropriate. That is one of the reasons we do Level 3 at our gym, so that our Level 4's come in pretty proficient (with an exception at times) and can use the Level 4 year to train Level 5, etc.

 

[nettyinpa]

Our gym does some uptraining at every level. Our level 6 girls were actually working on their giants last night. A lot of it depends, however, on where they currently are in their current routines. I also see the 4's working on kips and the 5's working on BWO on beam. There isn't a lot of dedicated work but they do get some.

Mdgymmom01 ~ What is MDL? Is that some kind of optional level? Like prep-opt? One of the girls from Olivia's level 5 team last year moved to the prep-opt team this season. I tell you one thing, I can really see a difference in her form and her skills only being in the gym about 9 hours a week as compared to our girls who are there 16. Obviously there will be differences but it's a shame that they don't do more on the conditioning side. Their core strength is nowhere near where the level teams are. A couple of dd's teammates started practicing with the prep-opt team one night a week, mostly due to school work load, and when they're out there with that group you can really see a more refined look to them. That's one reason why I'm not rushing to move dd to that group. Sure, it would be so much easier timewise but she's come so far this year and I'd hate to see her lose that.

 

[AlexsGymmyMom]

Our gym is pretty much working only on routines. Hopefully after states at the beginning of December they will begin doing some uptraining again. But then we also have a spring season that starts in January. I know ALex (L4) had her kip but has lost it (was never very consistent) and it has been months since they did any squat ons let alone even touch the high bar. I am having her do some private lessons just to do some uptraining as she is hopeful to compete Level 5 for the spring season. I really don't think it is going to happen but I don't tell her that. She already knows the routines for the most part and has all the skills except that darn pesky kip!!

 

[Megley]

I think our gym strikes a pretty good balance between training current skills and routines and uptraining, but we are definitely a gym in the mold that gymdog describes. My dd is repeating L5 this year, with a couple of L6 meets thrown in to score out, and she is working mostly on L5 and L6 skills. However, she is ahead on beam and they have progressed her there to bhs and now to bwo/bhs series. She is beginning to work layouts now that her bt looks good. Again, though, they won't let the girls move on until the base skills are good - i.e., no throwing layouts until the bt is good. On bars, I think a lot of the L5 and L6 skills are progressive - i.e., the more you work on your kip cast, the closer you get to kip chs. The more you work on the free hip, the closer it gets to hs. You need good tap swings before you can really progress to giants, etc. So the gym is looking for the base skills to be really great before moving the girls on. The way it's been explained to me she needs to have these basics in order for her later optional skills to be really well executed. It's all about the foundation. As gymdog said, a lot of it is boring and repetitive and to me a ro looks like a ro, but it has to be just right as a foundational skill in order to support higher level tumbling. So to us parents, it may not look like they are doing much but really they are. Anyway, this is a roundabout way of saying that while uptraining is good, working on the basics is also necessary.