WAG USAIGC Questions?

[wandrewsjr]

I have to say that I find the insistence that the thread stay on topic to be a bit ironic given recent postings that many considered off topic in another thread.

"By choosing to post, you are going to get all kinds of opinions" - read that in another thread recently

 

[raenndrops]

I find is interesting that an organisation called USAIGC has a worlds competition. So is it not just USA based?
I love hearing about all the different streams in the US, wish we had the numbers down here to allow them, we have nothing for lower hour gymnasts.

USAIGC and its international counterpart IAIGC have the same requirements and the judging is supposed to be the same with no regional variations. I know there are teams in South Africa and Bermuda? And I want to say someplace in Europe - maybe Great Britain?? I forget, lol. That is why they have Worlds after Nationals

 

[Jenny]

USAIGC and its international counterpart IAIGC have the same requirements and the judging is supposed to be the same with no regional variations. I know there are teams in South Africa and Bermuda? And I want to say someplace in Europe - maybe Great Britain?? I forget, lol. That is why they have Worlds after Nationals

There is no USAIG here I am pretty sure. I don't see how you can have worlds (lol) when only a handful of countries take part however cheer and other sports seems to do this too. And Boxing seems to have endless variations of world champions.

It is a really difficult one isn't it the pull between JO and xcel/USAIG etc type programs. They have all been set up really to provide an 'alternative' for girls/ families / gyms who can't/ don't want to commit to the JO system. They are supposed to be lower hours, more flexibility, less rigid standards than JO and they don't want JO kids competing in them. They exist precisely so that those kids don't have to compete against JO kids. It must bite to have taken your kids off to a more appropriate system only to have those JO kids come in anyway and probably take a lot of the medals.

However OP gym's reason of having them a place to try out more variety of skills, express themselves through their own routines etc is a really really good one. There are huge disadvantages (and advantages too) of performing set routines like JO levels 1-5.

That is a really hard one and gyms are only trying to find a pathway that suits them and their kids. I am sure someone mentioned only being allowed to compete in one state meet (or higher) a year. Maybe if this applied across all variations it would work. So you could compete in xcel/ USAIG 'regular' meets if you did JO STate but couldn't go forwards to their states/ regionals whatever. That would leave those end of season meets free for the 'real' xcel/ USAIG girls. Or gyms could chose to compete JO through the season but not go to state and then could compete the other system all the way through. I kind of feel it is right for gyms to 'declare' in this way which system they truly identify with.

It would be easy for xcel/ USAIG to prevent overlap. They just need to declare that you can't compete if you compete a JO meet after a certain date each year and then set that date half way through the JO season in their area. That way gyms would be forced to chose but would be able to compete a few JO if they wanted.

 

[profmom]

Well, there's another easy solution: if you're a JO program and you want your girls to have a fun time doing some optional routines, you could do USAIGC or XCel or whatever else, but just choose NOT to go to that stream's state, regional, national, and/or world meets. That way those programs can serve their intended audience well and have their showcase competitions among competitors pursuing the same ultimate aim -- to have a lot of fun doing gymnastics in a lower hour environment than JO.

I'm really curious as to why a JO program would compete its girls in another stream's state/regional/national meet. Doesn't make sense to me. It sure looks like the OP's gym intentionally switched programs because XCel closed that door.

 

[z2akids]

I am interested to see how this works out. I can understand wanting the fun of optional routines even before a gymnast has reached the optional levels. My friend's DD attends a gym where they do in house series of exhibitions where the girls get to put together their own routines. They enjoy it.

I can understand why Xcel would want to close that door. When 2 teams that competed at a JO State meet turn around and take 10 of the top 11 places in just one age group at the Xcel State meet a couple of months later, it comes across as a poor reflection on the process. DH and I always tell our DD that you can only do your best. You cannot control the competition and sometimes it will be tougher than at other times. But, it would be hard to be the parent of an Xcel track girl in that situation.

 

[Jenny]

Couldn't agree more with the above 2 posts.

 

[Dr Maleficent]

It seems strange that you can move 'down' a track at all- here a kid who has competed IR (lower stream) can move up to DC (higher) but not the other way round within the same season, and all tracks have the same season times.

 

[raenndrops]

There is no USAIG here I am pretty sure. I don't see how you can have worlds (lol) when only a handful of countries take part however cheer and other sports seems to do this too. And Boxing seems to have endless variations of world champions.

From the Club Directory... in addition to clubs in California, Delaware, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Oklahoma, and Pennsylvania, the following countries and associated clubs are IAIGC members:
Canada - Sault Ste Marie Gymnastics Club
Bermuda - Bermuda Gymnastics Association
Romania - Clubul Sportiv Scolar (unverified)
United Kingdom - Booker Gym Club (High Wycombe, Bucks, England), Chiltem Gymnastics (Sandhurst, Berkshire , England)
Mexico - SIRIUS
South Africa - CENTURION GYMNASTICS CLUB (unverified), Johannesburg Gymnastics Center (unverified), Visions Gymnastics (unverified)

 

[raenndrops]

From the Club Directory (representing last season's clubs, I would guess)... in addition to clubs in California (18 gyms), Delaware (3 gyms), Massachusetts (1 gym), New Jersey (47 gyms), New York (62 gyms), Ohio (1 gym), Oklahoma (3 gyms), and Pennsylvania (21 gyms), the following countries and associated clubs are IAIGC members:
Canada - Sault Ste Marie Gymnastics Club
Bermuda - Bermuda Gymnastics Association
Romania - Clubul Sportiv Scolar (unverified)
United Kingdom - Booker Gym Club (High Wycombe, Bucks, England), Chiltem Gymnastics (Sandhurst, Berkshire , England)
Mexico - SIRIUS
South Africa - CENTURION GYMNASTICS CLUB (unverified), Johannesburg Gymnastics Center (unverified), Visions Gymnastics (unverified)

With only 8 states participating, I don't really see how they can call their Nationals "Nationals" either.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I have to say that I find the insistence that the thread stay on topic to be a bit ironic given recent postings that many considered off topic in another thread.

"By choosing to post, you are going to get all kinds of opinions" - read that in another thread recently

Ironic, not really.

Yes you get all kinds of opinions. And I stand by mine.

Here is the part some folks missed. When asked directly by OP to step, I respected and honored her request because it was the OPs thread.

I didn't continue to state my opinions. And especially didn't continue just to snarky and condescending.

When an OP makes a direct request I play by their rules, its their thread.

A couple other things I don't do is bring other thread into a thread just to stir a pot or is that called whispering here...

And I don't attend every fight I am invited too so I am done with that.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Now since everyone clearly wants to continue the hours debate and who does what debate.

While this will be long, this for what I hope will be the last time, the what and why of our current gym.

I will after this post reference a few of the many debates about hours in general and the many different ways Xcel is used.

Here is my personal experience with hours and JO, and then XCel.

My daughter started team at another gym the same year Xcel started around here and the level changed. She was Level 3 at her old gym. I was told the training hours were 3 hrs, 3 days a week, not weekends. I thought that was a bit high for 7/8 yr olds but oh well. Only gym we ever did. Then after training all summer. They said oh no, not enough hours we are going to add 2 hours on Sat, so now up a total of 11 for a level 3. Meanwhile I watched during the summer and with 6 or 7 girls in a group, only one flipping kid was doing anything at one given time while the 5 or 6 pretty much stared into space. Sorry my kid can't do weekends she is committed elsewhere. At which point I got an arrogant dressing down my young woman who said perhaps you and your child are just not up to competitive gymnastics. Oh perhaps this new XCel thing is for your daughter if she is not cut out for JO and the commitment.

I really didn't like her attitude and at that point had never been to another gym. So I called some folks at other gyms and zipped on down to the gym I walked in, saw a ton of medals, trophies and banners and spoke with the coach. I have a kid, they tell me she is pretty good. However, we can not do weekends at this time, nor do I think it is necessary at her level to do a bunch of hours. The first words the owner/coach said to me was. Balance, kids need balance. To much to young and they burn out. Saturdays for the younger kids are not required. Now we realize Saturdays may work better for people's schedules so you can do them, you can add them but not required.

So I told him my daughter was a L3 could I bring her to a practice. He said yes. I did. It took me less then 15 mins of watching them practice, I called my husband, said this place is awesome and they are going to bump her down a level. And the coach after the lesson, said she has great natural talent. We are not sure what she spent the summer doing but she has not been trained properly, we would love to have but she needs to go back to L2.

She did more in one practice then she did all week at the other JO gym. The one who said, if my daughter couldn't do 11 hours at 7 yrs old, was just not cut out for the rigorous and competitive JO at flipping 7, umm maybe if you trained the kids better and more efficiently they wouldn't need so many hours. By the way she did 5 hours a week L2 and rocked it. 7.5 hours L3 and rocked it. We don't focus on scores and wins but I have to say, I rather loved seeing my girl at the top of the podium the day she beat her former gym and the coach who so arrogantly told me my girl was just not committed enough to do JO.

Team is team at this gym. When we started they were doing IGC that year as well as JO. Had been for years The coaches philosophy is a skill is a skill. Judging is no different. You should do it well period. And they expect our team to do their skills well. And their are gyms that train more then us, other gyms less.

We did Xcel last year because it was cheaper then IGC. Coach was trying to keep costs down and still have them do optional work. This year back to IGC. I have zero say in how they run their program. I drop my kid off and I write the check.

Again the gyms philosophy is compulsories great for basics, a program that encourages them to explore their artistic side as well, so when they get to optionals its not "new" and its fun, to pick your own music and see how they grow.

Our gym levels the kids where they should be. They don't score out but up train. And they don't do a lot of hours compared to many. They do way less then most JO teams, slightly more then some Xcel/IGC gyms.

Our team trains

Again when daughter was L2/Copper IGC it was 5 hours
L3/Silver Xcel 7.5 hours
This year L4/IGC (level TBD) will be 7.5 hours, might go to 9 hours
L5 and up, 12-15 hours. Can't speak to it not there yet.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Finally

I can understand why Xcel would want to close that door. When 2 teams that competed at a JO State meet turn around and take 10 of the top 11 places in just one age group at the Xcel State meet a couple of months later, it comes across as a poor reflection on the process. DH and I always tell our DD that you can only do your best. You cannot control the competition and sometimes it will be tougher than at other times. But, it would be hard to be the parent of an Xcel track girl in that situation.

Yes I tell my daughter too. Have fun do your best. Sometimes you will up against girls doing 15-20 hours a week. Its the way it goes. Either way your skills still need to be sharp.

Xcel is not being used as it was intended. I too had concerns when we started it. So I called the other gyms in our area as a prospective new parent, new to the area to find out their schedules. I started inquiring about JO. All their JO hours way more then our girls. And then I balked at the hours. I again, got multiple arrogant attitude about Oh well if JO hours are too difficult for your child and family, maybe JO is not for you but we have this thing called XCel here are their hours. And oddly their Xcel hours while less then their "highly" competitive JO teams were still at least the same or higher then our team.

And then I searched some threads and started one of my own about hours. And then I realized the hours vary greatly. I thought our coach was kidding when she said our kids were going up against lots of teams doing way more hours. She wasn't

Once I realized how many gyms are using Xcel to bypass compulsories for the "JO" girls and training way more hours. Win or lose, we play by the rules.

Should Xcel be used as it was intended, heck yes and its not.

Should girls training 20 hours go up against girls doing 7.5????? It happens, I don't care what you call it. Call it the Bannana Division.

To get an idea of the disparity of hours; here you go.

http://www.chalkbucket.com/forums/threads/xcel-and-jo.51835/

http://www.chalkbucket.com/forums/threads/xcel-hours.52393/

http://www.chalkbucket.com/forums/threads/how-many-hours-training.42964/

http://www.chalkbucket.com/forums/threads/how-many-hours.45499/

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Again, thank you all for the actual information you shared.

I've explained my situation as much as I can and care to.

Not much point in doing the hours and are the rules fair thing. I have no say. I am happy with our gym, my kid is doing OK.

So enjoy your debates.

 

[skschlag]

I just have some questions, and informational...

How long is each season? (JO/USAIGC)? Do the girls every get burnt out on competing or perfecting routines? Do the optional girls do 2 seasons too?

I am really curious as I know the girls (and parents) at our gym that do level 5 in the fall and jump to 6/7 in the spring get very burnt out on the competition and money aspect, and they are older. I am wonderin ghow this plays out in the younger years.

 

[Mrs. Puma]

I just have some questions, and informational...

How long is each season? (JO/USAIGC)? Do the girls every get burnt out on competing or perfecting routines? Do the optional girls do 2 seasons too?

I am really curious as I know the girls (and parents) at our gym that do level 5 in the fall and jump to 6/7 in the spring get very burnt out on the competition and money aspect, and they are older. I am wonderin ghow this plays out in the younger years.

I was also curious if the optional girls did IGC too? And our season in long in general in NY. Oct-ish to May-ish, though upper optionals states are March this year. Our old gym had a couple meets for 7/8s after states last year actually. So (not to speak for you @Deleted member 18037 !) I don't think we feel burnt out competing both fall and spring and since we're used to it? I'm still early in this game, so we'll see how I feel in a few years!

 

[z2akids]

I was also curious if the optional girls did IGC too? And our season in long in general in NY. Oct-ish to May-ish, though upper optionals states are March this year. Our old gym had a couple meets for 7/8s after states last year actually. So (not to speak for you @Deleted member 18037 !) I don't think we feel burnt out competing both fall and spring and since we're used to it? I'm still early in this game, so we'll see how I feel in a few years!

I wonder about even being allowed to compete both JO and IGC since the IGC rules say that one season must end before competing IGC and it appears that their seasons overlap.

I think that the alternatives to JO (at least xcel and IGC) appear to want to keep their tracks separate. In OP'S region, the Xcel organizers even had to go so far as to change their rules to stop gyms from competing both. Whether or not doing both is not technically prohibited, it seems pretty clear that it violates the spirit of the rules.

While I gather that OP'S gym believes that competition. Is competition, it appears that at least the Xcel track disagrees and has taken steps to preserve it's separation.

 

[Committed]

I was also curious if the optional girls did IGC too? And our season in long in general in NY. Oct-ish to May-ish, though upper optionals states are March this year. Our old gym had a couple meets for 7/8s after states last year actually. So (not to speak for you @Deleted member 18037 !) I don't think we feel burnt out competing both fall and spring and since we're used to it? I'm still early in this game, so we'll see how I feel in a few years!

I think the poster was talking about 2 FULL seasons back-to-back. Meaning 14+ meets.

 

[Azgymmiemom]

Sorry, posted to wrong thread

 

[Mrs. Puma]

I think the poster was talking about 2 FULL seasons back-to-back. Meaning 14+ meets.

Yea, 14 sounds like a lot. We did 6 last season and should be 6-7 this year. I know our optionals did a little more last year-maybe 9? Again, still learning all this! I guess my point was letting non-NYers know that our season is over several more months than apparently a lot of other states do. I would not think they are doing 14 meets, especially since they are doing early states which is the first weekend in February.

 

[Mrs. Puma]

Here is (so far-it's a work in progress, I believe) the NYS schedule. So, compulsories, optionals and Xcel all could compete most of the school year if they wanted to. I assume @Deleted member 18037 (again, not to speak for you, trying to help clarify!) gym would do a few meets in the winter, early states, then do IGC (not familiar with their schedule except that worlds was July I believe) so I would think they are still doing a "normal" amount of meets total. (6-8?)