WAG Not sandbagging, but...

[SpunkyGymMom]

Totally off topic, but that goofy vault change definitely made scores everywhere trend lower overall than in years past. I didn’t even see 38s at any of our meets. The reasoning for the vault change is sound, but the scoring was extremely inconsistent.

We didn’t see any 38s at our meets this year, either — and totally agree on the vault scoring. Some judges gave only a handful of very low 9s, with lots of 7s and 8s. And at a couple of our early meets, Suk timers way out-scored Yurchenko timers across the board, though that seemed to even out as the season went on. We finally saw some consistently higher vault scores at states.

 

[LJL07]

This is our stats’s Level 6 state meet results. The top scores are impressive, but yes, the vault scores max out under 9.5.

Right! And I noticed that when there WERE 9.0+, it was always older and bigger girls with those scores. The younger age groups almost never had 9's. We have four judges at state meet, and there was a full 1.0 discrepancy between my daughter's highest and lowest vault score. Those two get thrown out, but that's still crazy!

 

[mom2newgymnast]

At my daughter's recent level 6 state meet, the winner of her age group scored mid-38's doing pretty much all level 7 routines. The same gym also had several other girls score in the upper 38's and even low 39's, also competing routines that would score well in level 7. We are talking beam series with flight, giants, clear hip handstands, three tumbling passes with layouts and fhs/ft in their floor routines. After a quick search, it's clear that these girls are NOT level 6 repeats, just amazingly talented and obviously well-trained. However...what do others think about this? Girls who are clearly ready for the next level, competing below their obvious current ability?

*disclaimer- my dd didn't even end up competing at state due to injury, so I'm not bitter, just genuinely curious! We live many hours away from these gyms and those gymnasts clearly train many, many more hours than gyms in my area, so this is a different world than what I'm used to.

Personally, I think it is sandbagging if a gym has multiple gymnasts competing all level 7 events at level 6 and winning with 38 and 39's. I'm pretty sure if they are competing with level 7 events and scoring that high, they probably are training 8 or higher. Like a PP said, level 6 isn't required and is meant more as an in between for those not ready for optionals (or like in my state, for gyms that don't want to compete 5). I think most girls in that level do not have a large number of 7 & 8 skills. It's not exactly a level playing field in that case in my opinion. But that's just gymnastics unfortunately. There will never be a level playing field in gymnastics so it just is what it is.

 

[spider_monkey]

OP here...I did more research, and all of these girls competed with pretty much the same scores at level 5 last year. They are the highest-scoring level 6 team in the country. All of those girls looked like they could walk into the level 8 state meet and win. Several age groups represented, the youngest being in my dd's age group, which was the second youngest group (jr b). I definitely agree about the not burning out part and not pushing too fast, but these girls have got to be bored to tears! I looked through their MMS records, and one girl got a 39.6 at state a couple years ago. Without repeating levels.

 

[Freddy's Fred]

OP here...I did more research, and all of these girls competed with pretty much the same scores at level 5 last year. They are the highest-scoring level 6 team in the country. All of those girls looked like they could walk into the level 8 state meet and win. Several age groups represented, the youngest being in my dd's age group, which was the second youngest group (jr b). I definitely agree about the not burning out part and not pushing too fast, but these girls have got to be bored to tears! I looked through their MMS records, and one girl got a 39.6 at state a couple years ago. Without repeating levels.

I am in year 8 and 6 of competition (2 kids) and the best thing I've learned is not to pay attention to anything other than my own kid's progress. There will always be kids who are better. There will always be gyms who do things differently. My older daughter has skipped and repeated. My younger daughter has competed every single level 1-6. Both paths are fine. They've competed above level and below level for various reasons. Don't make yourself crazy. Especially at level 6 it doesn't really matter.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

, but these girls have got to be bored to tears!

You really can’t make that leap. You really have no idea.

If they are uptraining I’m sure they are not bored.

And quite honestly I find boredom will more likely negatively affect scores. As they are not as focused.

 

[spider_monkey]

I am in year 8 and 6 of competition (2 kids) and the best thing I've learned is not to pay attention to anything other than my own kid's progress. There will always be kids who are better. There will always be gyms who do things differently. My older daughter has skipped and repeated. My younger daughter has competed every single level 1-6. Both paths are fine. They've competed above level and below level for various reasons. Don't make yourself crazy. Especially at level 6 it doesn't really matter.

I’m definitely not comparing. There is no comparison to be made here! I’m a fan of the sport, enjoy watching and talking about it, and I’m genuinely curious. Like I said in my original post, this is a whole different world than what I’m a part of and I’m just trying to understand it.

You really can’t make that leap. You really have no idea.

If they are uptraining I’m sure they are not bored.

And quite honestly I find boredom will more likely negatively affect scores. As they are not as focused.

I definitely stand corrected here. I guess looking through my DDs eyes is what makes me think that. But obviously all gymnasts are different and are motivated differently.

 

[LJL07]

OP here...I did more research, and all of these girls competed with pretty much the same scores at level 5 last year. They are the highest-scoring level 6 team in the country. All of those girls looked like they could walk into the level 8 state meet and win. Several age groups represented, the youngest being in my dd's age group, which was the second youngest group (jr b). I definitely agree about the not burning out part and not pushing too fast, but these girls have got to be bored to tears! I looked through their MMS records, and one girl got a 39.6 at state a couple years ago. Without repeating levels.

Funny! You are absolutely right. I just looked, and I think we competed against this team (if we didn’t, it sure sounds like a similar team that is in the upper top 100 for several different meets), and one of my gym mom friends commented, “do you think they accidentally came to the wrong level session?” Ha! The team I’m talking about had very clean freehip handstands on bars and some competed front layouts on floor. Not only were their skills hard, but they were very clean. It was a little over the top. I totally agree they could have even competed 8. They may end up going to 8 rather than 7 next year. They certainly should!
Editing to add: that team had the highest scores of any meet we attended. Can’t remember if there was an actual 38, but certainly high 37s

 

[gymmom21]

I think it is important to realize different gyms have different standards. Some will move up or let a girl compete when she has a skill and others require the skill be to be executed cleanly, well, etc. Our gym will move girls up missing 1 skill consistently but may make them scratch the event or meet until they can perform it safetl, cleanly consistently. So by the time anyone outside the gym sees it they wonder why they were scratching a previous meet.

 

[MILgymFAM]

I was thinking of this when we watched L7 states the other day. My daughter’s teammate was in 8th or 9th AA with over a 37.5.. to me that is just kinda crazy. I don’t expect girls to have that level of skill domination, even at states. That’s just me, I know, but every girl I saw in that score range and above was exhibiting skills that were clearly ready for the next level- maybe just not to dominate.

 

[CuriousCate]

My daughter was training L7 prior to the season but competed L6 this year because her bars were not ready (and still aren’t). She competed her L7 beam and floor routines all year, though. After an okay year at L5, L6 seemed like the right call, and she was scoring in the 35s at the early meets. She steadily improved through the season and did well at states with a high 37 (there were no 38s in our state, so 39s sound insane to me). I think if you saw her beam or floor independently, you might question why she wasn’t competing L7.

This thread made me wonder - what do your gyms do with girls like mine that are lacking skills in one event? Move up and take the deductions? Or compete the level at which they have all the required skills?

My DD was in the exact same boat as yours. Struggled with her giant but had L7 floor and beam ready. She competed 6 as well and there was never any discussion about doing L7 and scratching bars or having a lower SV. If you didn't have the skills for the winter season by the end of summer, you would not compete the level. It was a bit off-putting because when they moved her to L6, they essentially stopped working on the giant on high bar altogether. Seems wasteful of all the time she put in to get SOOOOOO close. And now she is sort of starting over.

She ended up switching gyms right before meet season was slated to begin and competed L6 for the new gym. I'm not sure how they'd have handled missing one skill, but I suspect that if she was close (she was) that they'd have kept working with her and just scratched bars in the early part of the season. They seem much more flexible.

 

[gymdog]

OP here...I did more research, and all of these girls competed with pretty much the same scores at level 5 last year. They are the highest-scoring level 6 team in the country. All of those girls looked like they could walk into the level 8 state meet and win. Several age groups represented, the youngest being in my dd's age group, which was the second youngest group (jr b). I definitely agree about the not burning out part and not pushing too fast, but these girls have got to be bored to tears! I looked through their MMS records, and one girl got a 39.6 at state a couple years ago. Without repeating levels.

Nope not all of their 6s are even remotely that advanced, some needed a spot to warm up and complete their basic 6 bar routine. Also the scores are often unnecessarily inflated at our state meets. It's a big team with multiple programs so some are very good but winning level 8 is a stretch. I agree they had some girls with really good routines. But honestly not that different from other top gyms except having some girls who could do high bar cast handstand free hip handstand. Although I've seen it before from other gyms. And being cleaner. Which they're known for. But not every single kid on the team is extremely advanced. They definitely deserved to win though from what I've seen this season, their team is very clean.

 

[GymMom4]

Nope not all of their 6s are even remotely that advanced, some needed a spot to warm up and complete their basic 6 bar routine. Also the scores are often unnecessarily inflated at our state meets. It's a big team with multiple programs so some are very good but winning level 8 is a stretch. I agree they had some girls with really good routines. But honestly not that different from other top gyms except having some girls who could do high bar cast handstand free hip handstand. Although I've seen it before from other gyms. And being cleaner. Which they're known for. But not every single kid on the team is extremely advanced. They definitely deserved to win though from what I've seen this season, their team is very clean.

Is that team still in first place?

I have seen the second place team many times at meets and they always look so polished. If they won the team award it’s because their girls are exceptional. They perform clean. I’m just always glad when my kid doesn’t have to compete against them

 

[gymdog]

Is that team still in first place?

I have seen the second place team many times at meets and they always look so polished. If they won the team award it’s because their girls are exceptional. They perform clean. I’m just always glad when my kid doesn’t have to compete against them

Not sure what you mean?

 

[raenndrops]

My DD was in the exact same boat as yours. Struggled with her giant but had L7 floor and beam ready. She competed 6 as well and there was never any discussion about doing L7 and scratching bars or having a lower SV. If you didn't have the skills for the winter season by the end of summer, you would not compete the level. It was a bit off-putting because when they moved her to L6, they essentially stopped working on the giant on high bar altogether. Seems wasteful of all the time she put in to get SOOOOOO close. And now she is sort of starting over.

She ended up switching gyms right before meet season was slated to begin and competed L6 for the new gym. I'm not sure how they'd have handled missing one skill, but I suspect that if she was close (she was) that they'd have kept working with her and just scratched bars in the early part of the season. They seem much more flexible.

Actually, a giant isn't required for Level 7, so the new gym may have been willing to let her compete 2 clear hip circles (low bar and high bar) and compete Level 7 ... no scratching, no lower start value

 

[aerials]

I saw this a lot in level 6. The skills were all over the place. My dd just finished competing level 8 and the skills gymnast to gymnast seem to have leveled out some since level 7. Of course there are always girls competing the next level skills but it doesn't seem to near as much as what it was in level 6.

 

[GymMom4]

Not sure what you mean?

I was just trying to figure out which team you were talking about. I am familiar with the team that was at that time in second place, but not the one in first. That’s all I was asking. Scores and placements change on that top 100.

 

[Ginger]

Actually, a giant isn't required for Level 7, so the new gym may have been willing to let her compete 2 clear hip circles (low bar and high bar) and compete Level 7 ... no scratching, no lower start value

I thought L7 bars need two different circling elements? Like clear hip + toe circle (if ommiting giant)? Or do low bar clear hip/high bar clear hip count as two different elements?

 

[raenndrops]

I thought L7 bars need two different circling elements? Like clear hip + toe circle (if ommiting giant)? Or do low bar clear hip/high bar clear hip count as two different elements?

2 different bars so 2 different elements. All of our Level 7s compete 2 clear hip circles
But the requirements actually say same OR different.

 

[Ty’s Dad]

We didn’t see any 38s at our meets this year, either — and totally agree on the vault scoring. Some judges gave only a handful of very low 9s, with lots of 7s and 8s. And at a couple of our early meets, Suk timers way out-scored Yurchenko timers across the board, though that seemed to even out as the season went on. We finally saw some consistently higher vault scores at states.

Well my daughter is a level 7, but we get all the time why is she in this level and it’s not fair etc. But we came from another gym and was given the option to either do level 7 and make sure all of her skills are right while training level 9 or go level 8 and scratch vault most or all of the season. So my daughter make the decision to just do level 7 this year. She just finished states and got a mid 38 and made state team. But sometimes it’s not that the gyms are sandbagging sometime they just want to make sure the gymnast is ready to move on