WAG Am I thinking too much of this?

[putri]

I just found out recently that a few talents have just quit gym. Just decided to quit the sport. While I don't know the one child that well, the other is a good friend off dd (trains different days but they have a good time when given the chance) who loves gym. Then last week I noticed a name was missing and I was told she went to another club an hour away. So two top gymnast moved within a month of each other. In the last year, dd's group has gotten smaller not because the girls got tired of gym but because of issues with the coach. I think 6-8 girls total. I haven't heard about the two latest but the rest have moved on to other gyms which are friendlier.

So now I am a bit worried about dd. Her coaches are fabulous in terms of technicality of gymnastics. But, they're just not the friendliest or emotionally there people -- I am having a hard time describing them. They don't hug (and I see lots of coaches give proper hugs and enthusiastic high fives at meets) or jump with excitement. They'll smile, pat on head and formal high fives). Girls with potential get yelled at. Threatened to be moved down or sit out for not doing something right. I know one of the girls who left had squatting on issues after a fall. She was told to do it or leave the gym. Her mom tried to negotiate, told coach her dd will only do it when she's ready, and coach refused to work with them. The child was so stressed out that she came in, cried, and never came back. She's at another gym now and happy. Dd took ages to get her kip and when it happened, she got a "finally!" I'd be doing a happy dance and hugging the kid if I was the coach I mean these kids are 8/9 yrs old. Yes it's a hard sport but don't they deserve a bit of love?

My dd has thick skin. Things goes in and out of her ears. Frustrating for us but may be to her benefit at gym when coach is not happy. But I don't like what I am seeing with the other girls. Dd1 is getting good coaching, she's improving, fees are really reasonable, the girls win or at least top 5 in many big competitions and my dd is still happy there but I am a bit worried. Or am I overreacting?

 

[Deleted member D3987]

wow! that's a lot of negative stuff.

 

[Seeker]

No, you're not over reacting...it is important to take note of these things. If your DD seems okay at the moment, I would just let it ride and see where it takes you. Maybe that style is okay for your DD for now, where I can see how it would most definitely not be for others. I guess my concern would be how would these coaches handle things when the skills get tougher? Will these particular coaches stay with your child for the higher levels?

Kicking an athlete out of the gym for not doing a skill is not a coaching tactic that I would ever think effective long term, nor is it one that I would want used with my DD. Especially so with very young children...heck, any athlete, but you get my point. If this is how they act with young gymnasts at lower levels, how are they going to act when the going gets really tough?

 

[MaryA]

It is really hard not to get sucked into the negativity of other parents once it starts. We all want what's best for our kids... the best scores, the newest equipment, the nicest coaches, etc. I know that I can be perfectly happy with DD's gym one minute and then I get sucked into a negative conversation with some other parents and I start second-guessing everything. So, while I would say definitely keep a watchful eye on things, if your DD is happy and thriving, I wouldn't jump ship just yet. Follow your own gut and don't worry too much about what other's say/do. The gym may not have been a good fit for their kids, but it may be for yours. I wish my DD had happy, huggy coaches too. But she doesn't. I guess that just means that the happy huggy stuff has to come from me.

Though I agree that kicking a kid out of the gym for falling or for fears is unacceptable. Is this a behavior you have personally observed, or is it just what you've heard?

 

[Gymsanity]

That's a tough situation for sure. Part of me says that different kids thrive (or sometimes survive) in different situations. The old story of one persons medicine is another persons poison. So as long as she is happy, no worries. The other part of me worries that your daughter gets used to it, or feels that's normal (in gym and life). I don't care how 'technical' they are, your daughter shouldn't have to put up with bullies (that's what any coach that does and says those things is), and know what it's like to be in a positive nurturing environment. Feel sorry for you, and worse for her. Good luck.

 

[iwannacoach]

I've always felt most kids can only do their best in a gym that has an air of expectation. It seems there's an invisible force in gyms that ask more of every child, as all the kids work to support each other while trying their best..... most of the time. I added those last 4 words because I think it's fool hardy to require "the best" every day of the week. Add to this a generous amount of praise from the coach, and you have a great combination.

The problem some coaches have is they think if some is some expectation is good, then more will be better, and then get it all wrong by thinking that too much is just enough. They fail to see that the kids are being worn down past a point of expectation that resides between some and more. The result is that great kids start to become problem kids, or kids with a bad attitude, and of course the coach with impractical expectations treats them (troubled kids) to increased demands and negative rhetoric.

Personally speaking, and addressing those coaches who are finding their way....... it's far more productive to expect, care, and console than it is to expect, require more, and feel that improvement and a handshake is enough. Honestly, I've entertained a few national level gymnasts who wanted to walk away from the sport because they got nothing back from their coach but "it's about time"...... "why didn't you do that two weeks ago" ....... or......."I've been telling you that for the past year."

If it doesn't feel good from top to bottom (well nearly) you're probably getting it wrong.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Her coaches are fabulous and give high fives and smile.... But they are a little strict.... She is getting good coaching... fees are reasonable....
Doesn't sound like a lot of negatives here,,, and I don't feel sorry for you....
I say stop being influenced by others in the gym and here.... Sounds like she is doing fine...

 

[Iwannabemargo]

Are her coaches American, or possibly European ? Over here we don't tend to hug and whoop quite so much ..........

 

[Muddlethru]

I believe it is hard to find a gym that meets everything in our wish list. We switched gyms because my daughter's former coaches where severely lacking in coaching bars, vault and tumbling. They were strong in beam and the dance elements. We are now at a gym with better coaching in bars, vault and tumbling but deficient in beam and dance elements. The gym is farther away too. And while the HC is great with the girls (much better than her former coach) he has his issues. It is also frustrating to be at a gym who has someone with very very little gymnastics and coaching experience coach beam and floor. But my daughter likes her new HC tons better than her old HC. She is now stronger from the training and she LOVES her new teammates. I can give you a long list of things I wished this new gym had. But my daughter is happy and she is improving. Figure out what are the most important things to you and your daughter. And focus on those instead of what is important and what applies to the person next to you. You'll be better equipped to make the right decisions.

 

[Gymsanity]

'I say stop being influenced by others in the gym and here'

Ooops, guess if you follow your own advice, that would mean you too!
I think we now have a paradox.........

 

[Deleted member 14190]

'I say stop being influenced by others in the gym and here'

Ooops, guess if you follow your own advice, that would mean you too!
I think we now have a paradox.........

==
Actually the statement its self absolves myself of any influence, so no.... not a paradox.

 

[Sasha]

If she is thriving and progressing, then it seems like no reason to look elsewhere. Always good to keep an eye out in any situation for something unacceptable to you, but that's true anywhere. How you frame your coaches' style and interactions to your daughter is key. I don't personally need coaches to be huggy. That's actually a little weird to me, but I get that it's one style common in the US. High fives and a simple smile for excellent work sound great to me as acknowledgement. A pat on the head is pretty affectionate in many cultures. I don't think there is much hugginess or literal jumping for joy in our gym, and that's fine with me.

For the squat-on fear issue tactic you described, it sounds harsh, but I have heard it's one way to try to get kids moving past a fear quickly before it takes hold (to demand they do the skill and not give in to the fear). I think how to deal with fear issues is a hot debatable topic on what is best, and what works for one kid might not work for another, so that alone wouldn't be immediate reason to run for the hills. Others will surely disagree wholeheartedly with that approach, though, so go with you own gut I suppose.

Hope she continues to thrive!

 

[my4buffaloes]

If your dd is doing fine there I would stay but knowing what you know, keep an eye on her mental well being and the way they treat her to make sure that continues to be fine.

 

[putri]

Thank you all for the replies!! So many questions and let me see... Dd would tell me who sat out and why. I'd go, "How was gym?" And she'd go, "Fine, but so and so sat out because...." I spoke to so and so's mom and she said her kid's stressed out because of what was said by the coach.

Dd's coach is British. But, lots of British coaches are more sensible with children. I don't think dd's coach knows how to speak to children

I didn't write the post so you feel sorry for me. I feel truly sad for the kids who quit. I get that you have to be tough to make it in gymnastics but it's upsetting when it's the coach that distinguish that love for the sport. And I don't want my dd to be next. She loves gym and wouldn't mind doing college gymnastics if she keep improving.

 

[Iwannabemargo]

((oooh now wants to know who the coach is - pm me ?))

But that would explain the more reserved attitude !

 

[Faith]

A couple of things.

Your DD is at a club with elites. The elite system is harsh. There's very few kids who get chosen, and those who are have to keep up or they're simply moved back into the club stream. @Flossyduck has posted previously about how tough it is, and how they're all kept pretty much on edge (tagged flossy as thought she might have better insight). A lot is expected of these kids, at very young ages. The compulsory stream means they have deadlines to achieve certain skills, which is high pressure for coaches and kids.

This kind of work ethic does tend to filter down to lower groups. If your DD is happy though, and progressing well, without the pressure of being elite stream, then leave her to it. There are actually very few clubs in the UK that are capable of producing level 10/elite standard athletes, and a few of them have very tough reputations. However, if girls are switching, especially compulsory girls, it sounds like they've gone too far and are putting on too much pressure.

I had spotted one of your top elites has moved- she's doing alpha factor for another club this year.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

too be fair, i know some of the coaches in the UK coaching their top kids. they are great coaches/people.

most of the time, it's not the coaches. it's the system. the sport is dysfunctional in and of itself. i have posted this before. how many of you want to get on any of the equipment and even try some of what you see the kids do? it's just not natural. capiche?

and i used to do a pretty high level. i look back now and wonder "what was i thinking?". and here i am still coaching it.

the system/sport is what makes you crazy. as i have said, Gymnastics is a noun.

oh, and about the high fives and hugging. my opinion is that there is just too much of it. the industry went the other direction because of all the fanatics that say we are "hard". in fact, a lot of the coaching i see now can be characterized as 'cheerleading'. there is a time and a place for all that. it's called collegiate gymnastics.

 

[putri]

There are actually very few clubs in the UK that are capable of producing level 10/elite standard athletes, and a few of them have very tough reputations.

I had spotted one of your top elites has moved- she's doing alpha factor for another club this year.

Same with US, not every club has a level 10 coach... Or optional even But it seems like there are more every year! Which is great!!

Yes, you're right on that one top elite. She seems very happy there! She's such a hard working girl and I hope to see her do really well!!!

So if it's the system that's causing the attitude, are other elite gyms coaches like mine? After all this, I am glad that dd's in the non-elite stream!

 

[beamer]

I would refer you to a current thread in the parents' forum titled "abuse vs. motivation".

There are some good posts there that will help you understand the difference between the two.

 

[gymgymgymnast08]

I taught preschool classes at a gym who had owners who were not from USA. I was only teaching the preschool classes so I did not interact with the owners coaching their team very much. But from the few times I did, I hear the coaches saying things like, "that was really ugly" or "that was terrible." I guess that could come across as mean and some little girls aren't as tough as other little girls so they will quit gymnastics anyway. But I didn't think they were being mean or by any means verbally abusive by saying things like that. They didn't say "you're ugly" or "you're a terrible gymnast." But also, I think that could be attributed to a culture difference. I'm sure some things us Americans say that other Americans do not think twice about could seriously offend people from another country.

My favorite coach out of all the coaches I had was the one who would scream at people. Honestly I was quite terrified of her but I also admired her. If you had a mental block on something, she would scream at you and make you do the skill or leave the gym.My first practice with this coach she said "do a backhandspring on the high beam." I had never even done one on the low beam but I was more scared of what would happen if I didn't do what she told me to do the backhandspring and I did the backhandspring. She got me to do more than any other coach did!