WAG Another USAG screw up

[munchkin3]

Trust no one..........even grandma and grandpa are questionable with their late night sweets and dessert before dinner!!!!!
Not trying to make light of this terrible situation. But yes, the responsibility falls on us parents. It always surprises me when I see young tweens getting to practice via after school bus, then getting picked up late after a 4 hr practice, never seeing a parents.....(that's over 12 hrs a day of not seeing a parent).....I know people work but- why have kids then? Oh, I forgot to make an Olympian.

 

[profmom]

Counting on parents is great if we are talking about the kinds of parents likely to frequent this site -- most of us have disposable incomes sufficient to support gymnastics as a leisure activity for our children, most of us are probably pretty well educated, most are probably more likely to maintain stable home environments for our children, and we're probably more curious and proactive than the average (mama or papa) bear.

While even children in healthy, strong, supportive, and economically advantaged environments can be victimized, more victims are to be found among the vulnerable, particularly children in foster care. Individuals who sexually abuse children are often quite adept at spotting vulnerable children who are more easily groomed, less likely to have anyone trustworthy to tell, and less likely to be believed if they do tell. That's part of why they can engage in this behavior repeatedly.

We can't just leave it to parents. As a society, we have a duty to protect all members of society from assault and battery, including obviously sexual assault and battery. And part of that requires a deep cultural shift in which we stop blaming victims and take complaints, especially serial complaints, more seriously. I could write a lot about other cultural changes that could help, particularly about stopping the way we identify this set of harms as so much more horrific than a lot of other bad things that happen to children, but I won't tax your patience. Suffice it to say that there are very good cultural and sociolegal reasons that these crimes are underreported, often poorly investigated, and require multiple credible victims before anyone will take notice or official action.

Unfortunately, though, this is going to be an issue in any walk of life in which adults work closely with children, and individuals with these kinds of proclivities will be drawn to careers in this field. We can say it's not just about gym, and that's true, but it's equally true that this is always going to be an issue in gym. And we can think about how we might be able better to address this issue in gym. (And, as an aside, note that gym, like elementary school teaching and a lot of other related professions, will unfortunately also draw other types of people who want to work with children for the wrong reasons. Looking right at you, Ms. Principal with the seriously damaging authoritarian complex that has led to a lot of unwarranted misery and yes, emotional abuse, at your elementary school. Unfortunately, there ain't no law against that.)

 

[BachFlyer]

It always surprises me when I see young tweens getting to practice via after school bus, then getting picked up late after a 4 hr practice, never seeing a parents.....(that's over 12 hrs a day of not seeing a parent).....I know people work but- why have kids then? Oh, I forgot to make an Olympian.

Not to derail the conversation, but… Wow. You may not have intended it to be so offensive, but your comment is extremely so to those of us who are doing the best we can with the cards that were dealt. I don't see my children very much during the day because I'm supporting their passions, even if that means I sacrifice time with them, not because I'm trying to turn them into Olympians. Also, just want to point out that one can be struggling financially and due to circumstances not see their gymnasts much, yet still be in touch enough to protect them. The key is awareness, conversation and supportiveness, not time or money. To imply otherwise is setting families up for victim blaming.

 

[profmom]

Thanks, Bachflyer. I missed that. My son is not going to be an Olympian, but he's taking the bus to the gym twice a week now due to his practice schedule. I think that we forget that the current vogue in parenting for parents to be very involved in tween/teen children's lives is both new and not universal. I recall very well being in high school and getting on the bus at 7 AM and not returning home until 8 or 9 on days when I had debate practice and then play practice. I also recall going to debate tournaments many weekends during the season and the norm then was that parents were completely uninvolved. Neither of my parents ever saw me debate, and they tended to come to one performance of whatever play/musical I was involved in. That was just how it was done back then. Some parents didn't even come to varsity games when their kids were starting!

I think it is healthy for parents to exist on a spectrum, and for some parents not to have their lives revolve very heavily around their children and their activities. I like to think that as a dual career family where both parents collaborate heavily in managing life at home, we are modeling lives that will be emotionally and financially healthy should our children, both male and female, choose to follow our path.

And I'll add that if you do not foster a sense of autonomy, responsibility, independence, and control in your child, it will not go well for that child if s/he goes away to college.

 

[BachFlyer]

Yes, same for my family. I ran track in high school and I think my mom came to one meet in four years. Even as a single Parent, sometimes I feel over involved, and sense that it's not healthy for everyone!

And I'll add that if you do not foster a sense of autonomy, responsibility, independence, and control in your child, it will not go well for that child if s/he goes away to college.

I believe this is the key to keeping your kids not only productive members of society but also safe. They need to learn who they are, their boundaries, how to responsibly asses risk on their own and how to speak up. I actually think having an unhealthy attachment to risk-averse parents makes kids more likely to be victims, not less.

 

[GymDad9.9]

Not to derail the conversation, but… Wow. You may not have intended it to be so offensive, but your comment is extremely so to those of us who are doing the best we can with the cards that were dealt. I don't see my children very much during the day because I'm supporting their passions, even if that means I sacrifice time with them, not because I'm trying to turn them into Olympians. Also, just want to point out that one can be struggling financially and due to circumstances not see their gymnasts much, yet still be in touch enough to protect them. The key is awareness, conversation and supportiveness, not time or money. To imply otherwise is setting families up for victim blaming.

Thanks Bach for saying that. The comment hit me right in the face but I didn't want to respond until I got both my kids off to school, my wife could fight the traffic to get to her stressful job and I could get into the office to meet another deadline. Between prying into other people's business and sounding incredibly elitist, Munchkin's not having a good week here. Perhaps she should take some time for herself (sounds like she has plenty of it) and get a nice relaxing massage. I would if I were in her boat. Having said that, I like my boat and wouldn't trade it for anybody else's.

 

[mommyof1]

Not trying to make light of this terrible situation. But yes, the responsibility falls on us parents. It always surprises me when I see young tweens getting to practice via after school bus, then getting picked up late after a 4 hr practice, never seeing a parents.....(that's over 12 hrs a day of not seeing a parent).....I know people work but- why have kids then? Oh, I forgot to make an Olympian.

Not meaning at all to attack you, but merely to engage in constructive dialogue...

You have described my kid. She is out of the house for 12 hours a day and is dropped off at the gym by a van from her after-school program. If she weren't in gymnastics, she'd be out of the house 11 hours a day and wasting a lot more time at after-school. She is definitely not going to the Olympics; I will be ecstatic if she makes it out of L3 before middle school. She is the one who decided she wanted to be a competitive gymnast. We support it because it keeps her fit and healthy and we hope it is teaching her tenacity and resilience. I do not have the option to stay home with her, so we do the best we can. As parents, we are both much more actively involved than our own parents were, despite the fact that we both grew up with SAHMs.

Since she was a tiny kid, we have constantly been giving her carefully calculated opportunities to build independence and responsibility. We are also trying to teach her to recognize what's right and what's not, to speak up, and to stand up for herself. Our goal is to raise a confident, independent young woman who is capable of navigating the real world safely and productively. I have fewer concerns about her than about many of her friends whose parents actively try to shield them from the world.

 

[BachFlyer]

...how to responsibly asses risk on their own and how to speak up.

Ugh typos! I hope it's obvious that I clearly meant "assess"

I also want to add that we should be teaching our kids to trust their instincts (and ourselves as well). This is incredibly hard to do when faced with inappropriate conduct by somebody in a position of Authority, or when dealing with somebody like Dr. Nassar who was basically exalted and had an impeccable reputation, but I truly believe it's an essential life skill.

 

[sewgood]

Trust no one..........even grandma and grandpa are questionable with their late night sweets and dessert before dinner!!!!!
Not trying to make light of this terrible situation. But yes, the responsibility falls on us parents. It always surprises me when I see young tweens getting to practice via after school bus, then getting picked up late after a 4 hr practice, never seeing a parents.....(that's over 12 hrs a day of not seeing a parent).....I know people work but- why have kids then? Oh, I forgot to make an Olympian.

Are you freaking kidding me right now? Not really the time or place for the working vs SAHM debate.

Oh, and I like working. I love my job, and I don't feel guilty about that.

 

[munchkin3]

Sorry guys, not meant to offend anyone. I am able to check in and make time where I feel I need to. But please know that I have my best intentions here. I feel terrible about what happened with these children and the allegations. I wasnt talking about your kid because you are all talking the time on CB to know and learn....I am sure you are aware of what your kids are doing as much as you can and have the communication necessary.
I am not talking to you.....I have specific situations in mind, ones that are very different than your situations.

Anyway, I am sorry if I offended anyone....

 

[profmom]

Thanks, Munchkin -- I think we can all acknowledge that there's a happy medium out there somewhere between the hovering helicopters and the honey badger parents.

 

[munchkin3]

Thanks prof.....I have nothing but love for this sport......a few POS can ruin a lot of peoples lives across ALL sports.....
And I like working too.....and driving 30k miles a year....and doing ALL the travel meets....and all the same crap as everyone here gets to do....

 

[GymDad9.9]

Sorry guys, not meant to offend anyone. I am able to check in and make time where I feel I need to. But please know that I have my best intentions here. I feel terrible about what happened with these children and the allegations. I wasnt talking about your kid because you are all talking the time on CB to know and learn....I am sure you are aware of what your kids are doing as much as you can and have the communication necessary.
I am not talking to you.....I have specific situations in mind, ones that are very different than your situations.

Anyway, I am sorry if I offended anyone....

Oh, so it's those parents who are not on CB that can't give their kids the time of day that have you all riled up. Got it.

 

[Gymmommy71]

Regardless of parenting style, we all can agree that gyms really do not like, and many outright forbid, parents to sit there and observe a 5 hour practice. These in house medical groups also tend to operate during the practice hours so that could often be when parents aren't around (I know that's how it works most of the gyms in my area that have medical groups in house a few days a week).

I wonder how many Twistars gymnasts saw Nassar w/o a parent present - his services being "complimentary" probably increased the odds they'd see him alone cause less forms/insurance/payments required of the parents .

 

[l.c.o]

A lot of truth in this. This is a widespread problem. Anytime adult males are put in positions of power and authority over children and have unique access there have to be red flags up. In sports coaching, pediatric medicine, education, the clergy etc. "society" needs to become more sophisticated when it comes to recognizing in advance and/ or weeding out abusers and there needs to be a concerted effort made to encourage victims to go to a "safe" authority (parent, teacher whoever) right away after an incident.

I completely agree.

To take it a step further here, there needs to be a greater sense of protection over kids within society. Victim blaming is unfortunately far too common and seems to prevent many kids, and maybe even parents, from speaking up. There needs to be a safer way of reporting, and the benefit of the doubt must be given to victims. In this, I do not mean that due process isn't warranted. But generally I get the sense that in too many cases people blame the victim, because surely, they must be lying! "Doctor/coach/teacher/Mrs Jones would NEVER do that!" So it seems that they blame the victim and the media for defamation of the accused, etc while crying for due process, but in reality, they're ALSO judging without due process, "How do we know it's true?! Kids lie all the time! I know the person blamed, and they're so kind that it's impossible!" Because, uh, an adult with a career and family on the line would never lie?

I mean goodness, see the Brock Turner case!!

I'm not saying the victim is always truthful or should be believed without any scrutiny, but goodness, conduct a solid investigation, please. For everyone's benefit.

Until this happens, I'm afraid there won't be much improvement overall... Though maybe in some select niches. But those abusers would just move from those programs/professions/activities to ones where it's easier to regularly abuse others, because it's in their nature, sick as it is.

USAG (hopefully?) stepping up and finding a way to mitigate the abuse would likely help our gymnasts, surely. And as a mom, I hope they do. But they can't fix the world. That's up to all of us, collectively.

 

[duyetanh]

Oh, so it's those parents who are not on CB that can't give their kids the time of day that have you all riled up. Got it.

No...I think she means the parents who CHOOSE to not be with their kids or give them the time of day. As a teacher, I would say almost 30 percent of my students every year deal with this situation. And it sucks. And I teach kinders, which is the age in school where parents care the most in the elementary grades. I had 25 percent of my parents show up for conferences, and I provided food and free childcare. Btw I don't teach in an area full of crime....yes poverty exists but it is not the majority by any stretch of the word.....
So I think what munchkin is trying to say is that there are parents out there who care deeply, and others who deeply don't care. There are so many of my students that I would just love to take home with me, so they could the attention they deserve as children. My mom was a single mom and we didn't see her from 6 am to 6 pm, but when we saw her, the time was quality. There truly is a difference. Just like the rest of us working parents out here who do the best we can to do right by our children. I wish there were more out there like all of us. Many times I wonder why some parents have children. Just my two cents, fwiw....

 

[GymDad9.9]

No...I think she means the parents who CHOOSE to not be with their kids or give them the time of day. As a teacher, I would say almost 30 percent of my students every year deal with this situation. And it sucks. And I teach kinders, which is the age in school where parents care the most in the elementary grades. I had 25 percent of my parents show up for conferences, and I provided food and free childcare. Btw I don't teach in an area full of crime....yes poverty exists but it is not the majority by any stretch of the word.....
So I think what munchkin is trying to say is that there are parents out there who care deeply, and others who deeply don't care. There are so many of my students that I would just love to take home with me, so they could the attention they deserve as children. My mom was a single mom and we didn't see her from 6 am to 6 pm, but when we saw her, the time was quality. There truly is a difference. Just like the rest of us working parents out here who do the best we can to do right by our children. I wish there were more out there like all of us. Many times I wonder why some parents have children. Just my two cents, fwiw....

I appreciate your response. My mother taught school for over 35 years in one of the worst neighborhoods in NYC, the neighborhood I grew up in as a child so I know all about it. She would get up at 4 each morning to commute into the city, teach, then go to school to complete her degrees (Bachelor & Master's) and get home probably 10 at night and do it again the next day. She did it for her family because she knew she had a husband who she couldn't count on for anything and she was making up for lost time for having to drop out of high school and become the primary earner for her widowed mother despite having older siblings.

My response to Munchkin was facetious on my part. All I'll say is walk a mile in those folk's shoes before you pass judgement on them.

 

[mommyof1]

I wonder how many Twistars gymnasts saw Nassar w/o a parent present - his services being "complimentary" probably increased the odds they'd see him alone cause less forms/insurance/payments required of the parents .

This is what concerns me. I don't watch practice, but I'd never want my child to see a health care practitioner without my being there. Not just for safety reasons, but also so I would be informed about the issues and involved in all treatment decisions.

 

[notthatmom]

No...I think she means the parents who CHOOSE to not be with their kids or give them the time of day. As a teacher, I would say almost 30 percent of my students every year deal with this situation. And it sucks. And I teach kinders, which is the age in school where parents care the most in the elementary grades. I had 25 percent of my parents show up for conferences, and I provided food and free childcare. Btw I don't teach in an area full of crime....yes poverty exists but it is not the majority by any stretch of the word.....
So I think what munchkin is trying to say is that there are parents out there who care deeply, and others who deeply don't care. There are so many of my students that I would just love to take home with me, so they could the attention they deserve as children. My mom was a single mom and we didn't see her from 6 am to 6 pm, but when we saw her, the time was quality. There truly is a difference. Just like the rest of us working parents out here who do the best we can to do right by our children. I wish there were more out there like all of us. Many times I wonder why some parents have children. Just my two cents, fwiw....

I'm not a teacher, but I have two daughters in elementary school, and it's I am so hankfuknfie teachers and what they have to deal with and see all day long. When my youngest was in kindergarten, she had a little boy in her class who would constantly get in trouble at school, he was inappropriate, used bad language, told my daughter he thought she was "sexy" showed her and another girl is private parts...etc. I realize kids at that age are curious about their bodies, but I could tell this was different. My daughter saw the school counselor/social worker, and she and I had many conversations about it, she still hates the word sexy (like if it comes up in a song or on tv or something), but other than that she doesn't seem to remember much about him...only that they were once friends and she liked him as a classmate. As much as I should have wanted to go to school and give that little boy a swift smack in the face....I couldn't do anything but cry for him, because I knew with him being so young, he lived in a house with parents who didn't care, and perhaps with worse things going on...they were never at the back to school nights or meet the teacher, or the "open house" or whatever it's called at the end of the year....he moved and now goes to a different school, but I often think about him and hope he's somehow doing better. I feel for teachers, it's one of the hardest jobs in the world. Y'all should make more money than pro football players, that's for sure.

 

[CanAmGymMum]

USAG is not the "parent organization" of Twistars… and who is to say that Twistars was not aware?

I really hope this was not the case. I'm not defending Dr. Nassar in the least, but for what it's worth, he has a lot of supporters. Check out Katie Teft's acceptance speech from the region 5 hall of fame induction ceremony. Look at the applause it got! This happened after the news about Dr. Nassar broke. It starts at about 57.5 minutes in.