Behavioral Issues in the Gym

[GymSurvivor]

I would take her and sit her down and explain what you expect to see in the gym and that the only way shes going to get a better kick-over is if she works hard in the gym and doesn't goof around.

I understand what your going through, my little sister who is 6 loves to flip and run and jump but she doesn't listen. She has a natural ability for gymnastics but has a hard time with any work ethic what-so-ever and has a hard time when other girls do better then her.
Now she wasn't on team or pre-team or anything of the sort so we simply pulled her out for a session explaining that until she could listen better then she'd have to take a break from gymnastics. This obviously isn't the best choice for you little one since she seems to be a bit more advanced so I would simply explain that she needs to listen better. etc...

 

[GymGirl's Mom]

Hello-

I have not read everyone's responses, but I did read your OP. And many parts of it could be my daughter too. I will tell you a bit about my daughter and what we did that worked with her- for her. Each child is different and what works for one may not work for others but, maybe there's a bit of info that you can glean that will work with your daughter.

My DD turned 7 this fall, and is in the 1st grade- so she is in the same general age range as your daughter, she is finishing up a very successful Level 3 season and has begun uptraining Level 4 skills. In many ways sounds very similar to your daughter.

At age 5 I was approached by a member of the pre-team staff telling me they were interested in moving her to the pre-team. After talking to DD about pre-team, and viewing a few pre-team practices we decided to have her try it. It was a disaster. She did not listen to the coach, wait in line, refused to try certain skills, cried a lot... not good. After about a month of this the coach came to me and said she wasn't ready, I agreed. She cried and begged to stay on the pre-team. The coach said she should enroll in the rec classes and come back in a few months and she could give it another try. DD had the skills-- pullover, back hip circle, handstand forward roll, forward roll on beam- that they were looking for, just not the behavior. After a few months, and boredom in the rec program, it became clear the pre-team coach was not interested in working with her. We saw another round of girls begin training for pre-team and I was not approached. DD asked me when she could try again, I explained to her that the staff still didn't think she was ready. She was bored in her class and wanted to quit gym, although I could see she liked it and she expressed that she liked it to me all the time.

I called another gym in the area and asked for a pre-team tryout for DD. DD was now 6 years old. She tried out and was accepted into the program. DD and I spoke at length about whether she thought she really wanted to do this- and what it means and takes to do this (listening, standing in line, trying "hard" things, not crying). She insisted that she did- so we gave it a shot. She began at the new gym. Her behavior was better, but she still lacked the attention to details and ability to take corrections-- she looked distracted all the time. I could tell the new pre-team coaches didn't think a whole lot of her, she was adequate (as were 75% of the girls), but not a standout in any area.

A few months after starting at the new gym testing for Level 3 competition team came up. DD tells me she is soooooo interested in making team, again we have conversations about trying, listening, effort, etc. DD goes to testing and pulls out skills none of us, the coaches included, have ever seen her do-- we were all amazed. A child we all kind of expected (due to her in class behavior and effort) to just skate by with OK scores blew everyone's socks off. She made the Level 3 team. I could still tell the coaches weren't quite sure how the season would go but were willing to give her a chance because they saw she was super competitive- if the top # of pull ups was 7 she did 8, leg lifts 10 she did 11, rope climb 3 secs she did 2.98 secs.

Last summer she started training to compete Level 3 in the fall. Again it was a rocky summer with her effort, behavior, focus looking pretty poor. In the fall she began 1st grade and her teachers started saying she was having trouble with effort and focus in the classroom- she wasn't completing assignments on time- she was testing very strong in all her skills but couldn't produce in the classroom- she could read on a 4th grade level- but when it came time to complete an assignment it took her forever. She had never had this problem at school before- we had seen it in the gym, but now were seeing it in other areas of her life.

I called her PCP and talked with her. She saw DD and decided we should do a trial of a very low dose of Ritalin and see what happens. DH and I were conflicted- we really didn't want to medicate her, but after some conversations and thought were willing to give it a shot for a short period of time. DD began her meds in early Oct.

I saw an almost instant difference in the gym. She was focused, not so silly (still had the capability of being silly, just better able to control it), more mature, able to take corrections, and her Level 3 skills began to improve and get really polished. About a month after she began the meds her coaches stopped me after practice (I did not tell them I was medicating her) to tell me how great DD was starting to do at practice- like something "clicked" with her. At school her teachers reported that she seemed less distracted and was competing assignments in allotted time.

Her Level 3 season began and she did well and has improved steadily all season- her scores have increased every meet and she has placed in the top 3 on at least one event at each meet and even in the top 3 AA. Her coach stopped me the other day as I was picking her up from practice and told me she was the "most improved" on the team and she never would have predicted her season and her gymnastics in general would have gone so well when she first started working with her in the summer.

So- there's our journey thus far. She has wonderful coaches, and has really flourished this year. For DD it took a very low dose of medication to help her focus in all areas of her life. Not sure if this is the path for you, but it has made a world of difference for my DD- both at school and at the gym.

Hang in there- this parenting stuff is hard work. I wish all kids were easy, but 90% of them aren't. I have 2 and they each have their own challenges for better and for worse. Our job as parents is to help them try to grow into independant young adults who will move out of our homes someday, get a job, and support themselves. Until that day the road will be rocky, and often we will feel like crying, like we failed them, like we don't understand them, but we do- sometimes it just takes a little time to figure out what makes them tick.

 

[3stars]

You recognizing that there is a problem and wanting better for her is already a huge step in the right direction. In my experience (former elementary teacher and now I coach in our preschool gym) the biggest advice I can give is to have clearly defined rules. You can set them with her, if her coach isn't. Something that worked really well when I was teaching (and sounds really juvenile) was the take 5 approach. I had my students hold up their hand and we counted off 5 rules, 1 for each finger. Whatever we did always had 5 steps so they could go back and review the rules on their own and know immediately if they were doing everything they were supposed to. In the gym situation, you could take standing in line (or whatever area you think she needs the most work first) and start there. Example - 1)Feet on the floor, 2)Hands to myself (I always had kids clasp their hands behind their back) 3) One step back from the person in front of me 4) Mouth not talking 5) Eyes and ears on the coach or something along those lines. Is this a forever solution, no. It may be something temporary that can help her stop and think and learn the behaviors that you want her to learn.

I also am going to agree with the previous advice about explaining that gymnastics is not a given. I tell my own children with each activity that it is a privelege not a right and that if they don't treat it as such, we don't have to do it. It is very tough love, but the truth. I know you said she is moving up to team soon, for my daughter's team there is a handbook with behavior expectations listed that the athletes have to read and sign. Does your gym have something like this that maybe you and her coach can go over with her?

Good luck, parenting is really hard some (most) of the time.

 

[AlexsGymmyMom]

I had this problem with my son. I used a card system that my dd prep teacher used when she first started prep. It works wonders as it calmed my son down. There is a red yellow green cards. green is used for being good and if you get I think it was 10 (Can't really remember the number ) in a row you get a prize from the magic box. You get 2 warnings which is the yellow card and the red card well you can imagine. We never got to the red card but it is time out. It worked great because they wanted to pick a prize out of the magic box, and it was just cheap things in the box. Also the green cards were kept by having a book with stickers to every time he was given a green card he would pick a sticker and put it in his book.

This is the same system that is used in my DS 1st grade class. However, they can earn a purple day also for really exceptional behavior! He has only come home with yellow a couple of times. When he has recieved a purple we make a really big deal about it! Like ice cream (from DQ or Fritzs). It does work!!
Good luck with Bella! You are doing a great job!! It is hard being a mom sometimes!! Hang in there!!

 

[AGM78910]

I LOVE LOVE LOVE Bog's advice!! But I was concerned once you said she has the same behavior issues at school.

I was going to suggest the ADD/ADHD workup as well. I have both personal (my son) and professional experience with this issue, and it is amazing how once the kids are diagnosed and undergo therapy/meds (if necessary) how delightful these kids are! Most important, is that once the disorder is controlled, their academic achievements soar, along w/their social skills. In fact, after struggling academically and personally in the lower elementary grades, my son was diagnosed and treated in 4th grade. He recently graduated from Virginia Tech (Dean's list, I might add).

Sorry to go off tangent here, but it really, truly irritates me to no end to hear parents say "Oh, I would NEVER medicate my child." Would you withhold insulin from a diabetic?? Or my favorite "I don't want my child labelled." O.K.... these kids ARE labelled anyway... by their peers AND teachers! Sorry for my rant!!

We have an ADD child (our gymmie's big brother) and I heard the "I would not medicate my child" speech from other parents of ADD and ADHD kids. He was diagnosed by 3 different medical professionals, 2 psychologists and his pediatrician. We put him on meds and he went from failing first grade to the gifted program. He is now a junior in high school with a 3.5 average and an Eagle Scout and is a member of the largest high school marching band in the US. I personally am not crazy about the meds, but they totally worked for him. And there is now medical evidence that lots of the kids that are medicated can eventually do without the drugs because they "grow out" of the condition.

 

[my4buffaloes]

Time to talk to the coach again, because her plan isn't working. Either make your dd come sit with you for a few minutes when she misbehaves and then let her go back (if she misbehaves again, then make her leave) or pull her immediately and leave when she misbehaves. BUT first you have to talk to her. Make your expectations very clear - she must stay with her teacher, she may not be on equipment they aren't currently using, she may not push or hurt other people, etc - and warn her up front. She will most likely test you, so be prepared to leave the first time or even the first few times. If she really wants to do gym, her behavior will have to improve. Good luck! I have a child who has always pushed the limits behavior wise and it is not fun and yes it can be very embarassing.

 

[lilgymmie7]

We have an ADD child (our gymmie's big brother) and I heard the "I would not medicate my child" speech from other parents of ADD and ADHD kids. He was diagnosed by 3 different medical professionals, 2 psychologists and his pediatrician. We put him on meds and he went from failing first grade to the gifted program. He is now a junior in high school with a 3.5 average and an Eagle Scout and is a member of the largest high school marching band in the US. I personally am not crazy about the meds, but they totally worked for him. And there is now medical evidence that lots of the kids that are medicated can eventually do without the drugs because they "grow out" of the condition.

I have to 'Chime' in. These are such sound words. I am truly amazed when parents say what they would or wouldn't do in regards to treatments their children could receive to improve their child's way of life. I am currently battling a similar situation with a student of mine.
My own son was diagnosed with anxiexty and ADD. At first I must admit I struggled with the realization that he would have to take very strong medication. Yet, if I look back at how much his quality of life has improved I KNOW we did what was best for him.
I'm not so sure that the child 'grows' out of ADD/ADHD, but I have heard that they have learned to manage their inattentiveness and maybe even their hyperactivity.
It is truly awesome that the OP is concerned about her child now enough to ask for advice. Your DD 's still very young. You are very right that if left 'untreated', alone these same misbehaviors will NOT seem so cute as she ages. Through research and talking to her doctor, you will find the help you need.
I became concerned when my son was in first grade because he was making himself 'sick' every time school was mentioned. He cried excessively when we had to leave him at school. Had I not sought the help of his psychiatrist then, I really shutter to think where this poor child would be at this point. Good luck to you!! And I really hope that all of this advice has armed you with enough ammo to take the next step in your journey.
**However, I'm not sure that taking gym away permenantly should be the answer. Children need to feel as though they can excel in some arena of their life. However, gym could be the key to unlock more answers for you. If you tell her you will pull her from gym if she misbehaves and you note that she still does, then perhaps there is more there to point to ADD/ADHD. (That is if she really loves it.) Children with ADD/ADHD do not respond to directives like this simply because their impulsivity does not allow them to.**

I'm sure others may have mentioned the same. I didn't have time to read all posts. Again Lots of luck is being sent your way!!

Oh boy, I nearly forgot to add. CONSISTENCY is truly key for all children, but especially those who are having troubles with behavior. Their little brains do latch on to the 'reality' what ever that might be when the care giver is consistent. My son early on could NOT adjust to change very well. Change without discussion caused his anxiety and ADD to sky rocket.

 

[lhmom]

Actually, reading the first post was like reading about my son who is ADHD. We resisted meeds at first, but doing a low dose of Focalin XR has made a great difference, especially in school. It's worth seeing a professional about. We are also extremely structured in everything we do with him and make expectations (and consequences) clear and immediate. He's 9 and still has his "moments", but it's getting better. Good luck!

 

[gymcoach34]

I commend your effort to help your daughter. However, you need the coaches help, as only NATURAL consequences will help her learn to control her behavior. Perhaps you could have a chat w the coach- it sound like the coach needs some help learning to deal with these issues. Its easier to look the other way- for a while- but then things can really escalate. It might be helpful for the HC or a more experienced coach to be there for the meeting so that coach can help your DD's coach learn to have discipline in the class.

What about a system where she gets a warming-perhaps the coach can signal you with a finger that she has had her warning. Then, if it happens again, the COACH should remove her from the group and you can take her home. If all the discipline is coming from you (such as you decide when she leaves) she wont learn to behave for others. You & the coach MUST work together on this. She is only going to be "cute" for so long, then it gets ugly once the teen years set in. (I have seen this happen before!)

Maybe its not as bad as you think, however, if neither the coach or the teacher is too concerned. I would keep my eye on things, and maybe is it possible to have her work w/ another coach to see if it really is a problem?

 

[gymster]

Gymster, I just went back and read all the posts... my rant was NOT directed towards you at all.... it was just my own personal experience dealing w/friends, other teachers at school and working w/kids.

No Problem! I totally agree! That was why I began as I Did! Most who Make that statement either do not have children or have not lived with a child like this! My
Mother n law was very much like this till My DD stayed with her a week! She returned her with an appology and told us she was the poster child for ridilin! Which at the time was the most common ADHD drug! And I was a teacher for a long time! I know it can be an overused label! BTW- I Love the insilin comment! :O)

 

[Tumblequeensmom]

And there is now medical evidence that lots of the kids that are medicated can eventually do without the drugs because they "grow out" of the condition.

The goal is ALWAYS to use the meds only as long as possible, teach the kids that yes, this is a disability and our goal as parents and educators is to teach them to learn strategies to cope with it!! I also have to say that my son was able to discontinue his meds his junior year of high school

 

[sara74]

I get it. Yes, she's cute. She's very charming and personable. However charming, personable, and a total lack of understanding right from wrong make for a great serial killer, not a high functioning adult.

Can I just say that I don't know you in real life, but I love you? How many times I wish a few parents I know would see this in their own children??? You are wise to nip this in the bud, and I have to say I agree with Bog about telling her you will pull her and then holding to it if she can't control her behavior. I wish I had stepped up with my own DD sooner this year...

I was having a similar issue with DD. She wasn't interfering with other kids or running around, rather she was just being lazy. If she was sent to work on a certain skill on the beam or bar, she would do it twice and then laze around waiting for someone to send her somewhere else. I talked to her several times about it, but to no avail. I don't know what the coach said, but one day the coach pulled her aside, spoke sternly to her and it hasn't happened since! The coach told me she spoke to DD, told me that DD was tearful afterwards, but that she was doing much better in practice. When I asked DD about practice that day she told me it was her best practice in months! Long story short - no matter which way they are expressing it, your daughter and mine are both doing the same thing - seeing how far they can push the boundaries. And they are/were both looking for someone to stop them.

Best of luck! Keep us posted!

 

[gymster]

This thread lead me to start the group parents of Gymnast with ADD/ADHD Group! Tell your story and join! It is nice to know I am not alone!)

 

[emandelsmom]

The psychologist explained it to us this way: Medicine would help slow down her thought processes enough that she will eventually learn coping skills for the ADD. He said that this usually kicked in by high school. As a preteen, she still needs them.
Em is great about her medicine and great about telling me when we need to readjust the schedule so that she gets through all activities. Our biggest issue has been that she takes vyvanse at 6:30 in the morning, but by 4:30 pm -gym time they were long gone. Our dr worked with us to make sure they last through her gymnastics class. She needs to be focused so she doesn't get hurt.

 

[Bella's Mom]

I was able to talk to Bella's teacher and her guidance counselor at school today. Have not yet been able to talk to her coach because I'm not sure yet about the details of how to handle this.

I approached her teacher about her thoughts of Bella having ADD. I realize she is not a medical professional but I also know that teachers work with a lot of ADHD kids and I value her input on this topic. She told me that she didn't feel that Bella really fit many of the criteria for the disorder but would assist our pediatrician in formalizing a diagnosis if I chose that route. She said that she felt Bella was very on track with paying attention and that she saw no problem with focus at school. I asked her about social development because Bella always says she has few friends at school. Mrs T looked at me like I was crazy. she said this was the reason Bella spent so much time on "yellow" was because she talked to too many of her friends and she was constantly having to separate the girls to tone down the talking. She mentioned that she felt like Bella did not have a problem concentrating because she does have high reading and math scores and that when she is engaged in schoolwork, she doesn't go off task very often.

Next I met with the counselor. I am fortunate in that before taking a job as an elementary counselor he was a competitive swim coach for many years and his daughters were competitive gymnasts so he is familiar with the gym atmosphere and coaching expectations. He seemed to think that her behavior was not highly abnormal and that it could be changed with some specific guidelines like Bog, Sarah's Mom, and so many others of you have suggested. He also cautioned me about being too vague as well. Pay attention, don't flop, work hard aren't specific enough for "literal" kids. (For example, Bella argued with me that she wasn't KICKED out of gym last night, she was WALKED out thankyouverymuch.) He asked me how much time she spent in front of the screen (with gym 3x a week and soccer 2x a week who has time for TV????) and how many meals we ate together (gulp....does the car count?) but basically felt that she wasn't out of norm ranges.

Now I just need to spend some time tonight putting in specific terms how I expect Bella to participate during gym time. Then I will have my ducks in a row to be able to call her coach tomorrow. I hope her coach isn't offended. I really don't think she will be and really the worst that could happen is that we would be asked to leave the gym. It would break my heart but I don't expect that to happen. I think her coach cares enough about Bella as a child to work with me.

 

[Bella's Mom]

Beam
1. Don't swing under the beam.
2. Do not mount the beam when another gymnast is using it unless Miss Christina says to do so.
3. Walk from beam to beam when doing stations. No running and no cutting in front of your teammates.
4. Do not rush through your motions. Concentrate on what Miss Christina tells you to work on (pointed toes, head position, pretty hands).
5. Do not try a spotted stunt until Miss Christina is ready for you. Wait for her to say "Okay Bella" so you don't surprise her and possibly hurt her or yourself.


Bars
1. Walk from bar to bar when doing stations. No running and no cutting in front of your teammates.
2. Do not mount the bar when Miss Christina is talking to another gymnast. You might kick her in the face and hurt her.
3. Do not release the bar so that you land on your bottom or back.
4. Walk to the bars. Do not run across the floor. Do not cut in front of your teammates.
5. Only work on the bar you are supposed to be on. You may not go to the big bars without permission from Miss Christina.

Vault
1. Do not push your teammates in line. Do not cut in front of them. Everyone deserves a turn.
2. Walk back to the running track. Do not bounce down the tumble track. Do not take a detour to the tramps.
3. If Miss Christina has set up mini stations after your vault, do them in the correct order and without skipping stations.
4. Do not go until Miss Christina signals you to start running. You could hurt yourself or another gymnast if she isn't prepared for you to come.
5. Do not come to the lobby while waiting in line. It doesn't matter if I am in the lobby or not. You need to be concentrating on what you are going to when during your next vault.

Floor
1. Do not throw your body in front of another gymnast. Do not throw your body at the feet of another gymnast.
2. When you have finished a stunt, walk to the back of the line or to the next station. Do not run. Do not dive. Do not roll. Do not round off. Walk.
3. When you are waiting for your turn, stand with your hands behind your back. You do not put your hands on another gymnast.
4. Do not throw a trick if Miss Christina isn't ready for you. You might kick her in the face or hurt yourself.
5. You should think about what Miss Christina tells you to do so that you can fix your mistakes. Follow her directions. She wants you to do well at meets and is trying to help you get pretty hands and good form.

Above All: Do not use your hands, feet, or words to hurt another person in the gym. We do not push. We do not say mean words. We do not treat someone like their feelings don't matter.

-----------------------------------

Okay....feedback. I feel like that is pretty darn specific. It feels kind of silly to go into that much detail but maybe this is the level she needs. I'm open to suggestions for modification before printing and discussing with her coach.

 

[coachmolly]

I think those are some good starting points, it's great that you and the teacher were able to get on the same page and also get some advice from the BTDT guidance counselor. I agree that some of these things are somewhat common in a child of her age, but that isn't a reason to ignore them! I know that's not at all what you are doing, but I have met too many parents use "oh, she's just 6" as an excuse for the behavior rather than as an opportunity to work on improving it.
As far as ADHD, it wouldn't hurt to get it checked out. Some kids really need the help of medication to help them get on the right track. As someone who was put on medication for a different problem at a young age (10), I know that it's not fun to be on medicine, have other kids ask questions, dealing with the side effects, and finding the right medication/dosage, so it's not something I support if it's NOT needed. However, I also know what a magical thing it can be for a child who DOES need it and has a great doctor working on their side. I think you're doing the right thing by working with coaches, teachers, and doctors to see if their is a deeper cause of the problem so either a solution can be found or the problem can be ruled out. I know just how frustrating it was to be labeled as one of those "different" or "difficult" children because of my diagnosis and having adults not understand and just give up on me, not fun! So it's good you are being proactive, both about any possible biological problems, but also about behavioral problems.

 

[Bella's Mom]

To make a long, long story short, our turn around in school and in gymnastics was because of very specific rules. Just telling her to be good and pay attention and mind did not suffice. She needed - do not do this, do not do that, etc. I made well over 20 different rules for gymnastics - basically my pet peeves, including very specific rules about how to respect others and be a good team mate - not just the general values.

I ended up following your pattern and came up with 5 rules for each apparatus plus an overall rule. She is with her father tonight but our free night is tomorrow so I can go over them with her then.

 

[Bella's Mom]

I was wondering on the ADHD thing too. I have a number of ADHD athletes, & the little ones and your Bella sound a lot alike.

As a coach it is very difficult to keep all the parents happy in terms of behavior expectations & consequences--I have met kids who have NEVER been told 'no' in their whole lives, & kids whose parents expect me to shut down any disobedience or disrespect as soon as it starts. It's extremely hard to keep to all of those expectations & be a consistent coach at the same time. I find myself in the awkward position of being the most strict adult in some kids' lives! Or with parents on one hand saying "why are you so tough on them?" and "why can't she do XYZ?" in the same breath. It's not a pleasant place to be.

As a coach, I really appreciate the parents who have a realistic view of their kids' behavior & work with us to find a solution. Then I get to spend more time on the skills and less on the "we don't jump from there to there because it's not safe for anyone here" conversation.

And as a parent, I don't want the coach to have to deal with my child's misbehavior. They are GYMNASTICS coaches, not behavior coaches. Of course, most coaches who teach the young ones know that some redirection is part of teaching a child. But I do not want to burden any coach because my child can't keep it together.

 

[bogwoppit]

Bella sounds a lot like my now 11, almost 12, year old DD> A livewire, a chatterbox, the life and soul of the party. NOw she has quit gym even the coach calls to say how much she is missed.

I like your rules, but just be careful that it isn't too much info for her to absorb. YOu can only micromanage so much in the gym, what you want her to do is

to wait her turn in line
to stay off the equipment until it is her turn
to keep her hands to herself
to listen to the coaches instructions
to not hurl herself about the gym

If you keep it more simple, the old KISS method (keep it simple stupid) she has a better way of knowing what she has to do, if she needs a book to refer to at gym it ain't gonna happen. By all means sit down and expalin all the things you have outlined. But if you are looking for five simple rules, try just five for the gym, period. SHe needs to be able to recite the rules herself. When you yank her from gym for breaking her five rules, she needs to get why you did it.

Good luck, she will get it, ADD or not, but if she truly is ADD she will require patience and consistency by the bucket load.

My oldest dd was told at three she was ADD ADHD, we never went the medical route, we toseed her in gym and worked on structure, now at 14 she is quiet, studious and top of her class. Kids are all individuals even with a diagnosis.