WAG College question for coaches or parents/athletes who have been there done that

[Midwestmommy]

From the perspective of a family who makes enough money to not get much if any financially-based aid, but who does not make enough to not ask what things cost..... And a great student, but not an amazing academic phenom (not in top 1% of test scorers but in top 10% etc)...

What would be the advantage for a sophomore female athlete to commit to an ivy league school?

There is the obvious, that hopefully the great eduction will land a great job after school. But beyond that, what other advantages are there to this choice versus holding out for a possible scholarship offer....

Seems like the financial strain of paying $300,000 plus for college is an enormous issue.....

Thoughts from those who have been there done that with this decision or who have at least had to think about it??

 

[Midwestmommy]

In case you are wondering, this is not for my kid (too young yet)...it's for a one of my best friend's daughter who is facing this in a non-gymnastics sport..

 

[profmom]

Which Ivy and how much would she/her family have to borrow?

 

[Midwestmommy]

She said her understanding is that any aid is completely income based, which means they would need to spend savings (and borrow some) for all of it ($300K+ for undergrad degree).... How much they borrow depends on how soon they want to retire.... I'm not confortable naming the school on the board, but it's very strong academically.

 

[profmom]

IMHO, possibly worth it to take on some debt for some of them but not all of them, and it would depend on what she wants to do after. If she hopes to go to graduate school, then a strong Ivy degree will help, but she will have to do well there.

$300K of borrowing is too much. If she's thinking to borrow big, she's better off going to an outstanding small liberal arts college (SLAC) like Oberlin, Occidental, or Swarthmore than some of the Ivies (like Penn or Columbia -- they are terrific schools, but not as good for undergraduates as the best SLACs). But she should be talking to counselors on the ground who know her situation specifically and her aspirations. From the academic side, it's impossible to make a call one way or the other with very general information. Others may have a better fix on the athletic side.

 

[Midwestmommy]

I just talked to someone at work too who said they should definitely talk to them further. They thought maybe some of the Ivy League schools that are very heavily endowed would have a different formula (and much more money) available for aid than other schools. He gave the example that it would have cost him $40,000 a year to send one of his kids to a private college here in our state (didn' t meet financial aid criteria), but that it cost $12,000/year for an Ivy League school (which is actually someone doable for us working stiffs) because they had such rich endowments and more aid available. Sounds like it's more complicated than taking things at face value, and it's best to have more conversations than dismissing the idea. You are right, her specific career and academic goals are really important considerations too.

 

[MaryA]

Yes, I have also heard that Ivy's have lots of tools for making the school more affordable, and that private schools in general can come up with all sorts of random scholarships and grants for athletes that they want... they just can't call them "athletic scholarships." I am surprised, however, that the financial aid "package" wasn't discussed with this student when the offer was made. That is a very important piece of the puzzle for families to have.

I have heard that a good rule of thumb is to not take out more $$ in loans than you expect to make in your first year of employment. I wonder about my friend's son who is at Harvard studying Art History. I hope he has a big scholarship!

 

[Iwannabemargo]

Nothing to add as I am not in the states, except, boy am I glad I'm not in the states ! £300K Yikes !!!! I thought £ 40K here for a degree was bad enough............. So glad when I went there were no tuition fees.

 

[shelovestoflip]

I would love to know the answer to this specifically related to colleges with gymnastics!
Though perhaps it is similar??

My understanding is that Ivy schools cannot give an athletic scholarship. However if they want you and your grades are good enough, they will find a way for you to get to their school.

Also, I feel like I've heard, as someone else posted, that schools with better endowments will have more money to give (indeed, Ivies fall into this category, as do many private colleges). In general, I think that while state schools bill themselves as a 'great deal' reality is they have less money to give and a person might do better at a private school.

Not sure if this helps, but just what I've heard.....my daughter is just beginning the college search!

 

[bookworm]

We have a friend who committed to an Ivy team ( and would not have otherwise gotten a penny of financial aid if income based ) and was "awarded" scholarships to the tune of around $35,000, thus making it much more attractive to commit to....

 

[gymdog]

The income based requirements might be higher than they think...but I would say don't commit as a sophomore until they know more about the details of it. Does the student even know what they want to study ? Something better might come along and many other institutions offer academic based scholarships.

 

[Natalia]

6. Parents are scammed. If you are a parent and wish to send your kids to a college then, just to summarize, here is what you are paying for:

• your kids are going to have sex 1- 5 times a day with people you probably wouldn’t approve of.
• your kids are going to drink, smoke pot, probably try LSD and other drugs before you even get home
• your kids are going to cheat on most of their exams. When I first started college I wanted to be a psychologist. I read every book on psychology. In Psych 101 I got a D- on my first exam, which was graded on a curve. Apparently the other 2000 kids in the class had access to older exams which were stored at all the fraternities and the professor never changed the exams. I had to ultimately drop Psych as a major. My dad said, “why do you want to major in Psychology anyway. Girls won’t like you because you won’t make any money as a psychologist.” I said, “but then I’ll never know if the girls like me for money or not?” And he said, “Girls won’t like you because you have money. They’ll like you because YOU ARE THE KIND OF GUY who can make a lot of money.”
• your kids are going to make connections with other like-minded individuals (people focused on drugs, socialism, sex 24 hours a day (not a bad thing), people cheating on exams, and people with rich parents who will help your kids get jobs at Goldman Sachs).
• your kids are going to think they are smarter than you almost immediately.
• while you are working 60 hours a week and borrowing money to send your kids to college, your kids will be sleeping good chunks of the day, relaxing on the weekends, and enjoying the blissful pleasures of the lazy life for another four years until the real world hits

http://www.jamesaltucher.com/2011/01/8-alternatives-to-college/

 

[Midwestmommy]

Well, be that as it may, mine won't be the first in 4 generations not to get a college degree, ain't gonna happen....

 

[Iwannabemargo]

Obviously that writer had a VERY different college education that I did, mind you our courses don't tend to be modular here, more linear, I had an average on 36 hours a week in every one of my years, and yes I did drink and dance a bit, but I also worked my socks off made some friends that I have kept for the last 20+ years and became a bit more educated !

 

[Natalia]

James altucher is a graduate of Cornell university and Carnegie Mellon.

All of human knowledge is available at the touch of a screen.This was not the case for the 3 generations before us.

If you wish to have this information delivered in a structured way,I suggest MOOCs.Massive open online courses from the worlds best universities.They're free.

A college degree was a right of passage into middle class job stability.The middle class has been outsourced to India,their graduates are cheap and competent.Job stability has been replaced by crowd sourcing.

Time is better served learning to navigate these new dynamics,then spending 4 extremly expensive years in college.

New paradigms,new challenges,new approach.

 

[Muddlethru]

People will do all that even if they don't go to college. And kids who go to college can still do all the "alternatives" to college after college. Maybe the writer is being humorous but if not his views/experience does not depict the "whole" college experience. In addition, experimentation while common in college is usually a one time occurrence. Kids may try something once. But for the most part and for the greater majority, a lot of good can be achieved in college.

Lastly, James Altucher is able to make this assessment because of his college degrees. Many kids still need structure regardless of what is now available at the tip of our fingers.

 

[Midwestmommy]

The paradigm hasn't shifted for hiring managers yet... And I want my basement back from the kiddos at some point. But I know what you mean, throwing money at a fan isn't very productive.

 

[gymgymgymnast08]

I think it is really important to make sure the college is good for the athlete academically too. You never know when a career ending injury will occur. If you go to a school that is only a good fit athletically, what happens when you can't do that sport anymore? I picked the school I go to specifically to compete gymnastics and I had a career ending gymnastics injury the first semester that I was there! It is still a great fit for me academically but I just got lucky.

One of my friends went to a college specifically because they had a really good sport that he was going to do team. He did great playing for his school but now he graduated and no one wants to hire him for jobs with his degree because he went to a school that wasn't too great for what he was majoring in.

99% of the time, the sport you play in college isn't going to get you a job, its the academics that gets you a job.

Edit to my post: One of my professors was just saying the other day that these days a college degree is like a high school degree and people need to go to graduate school to get the really good jobs.

 

[Natalia]

@4theloveofsports "Many kids still need structure regardless of what is now available at the tip of our fingers."

Hunger pangs from an empty wallet teaches self discipline .Get a minimum wage job kid,study evenings and weekends.

Start a business,bootstrap:your first clients are your source of financing.At least you know there's a market for your ideas.

Kid wants to create an app.Learn to code.You can learn for free.Your first 100 apps will be ignored,but you will have learnt to code.Now you can teach others to code.There's always someone lazier then you.They prefer a structured course,rather then breaking the code themselves.Sell your knowledge.

A gymnast can handle a job and study,better then any other kid.A gymnast can handle the 100 failures before success.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

@4theloveofsports "Many kids still need structure regardless of what is now available at the tip of our fingers."

Hunger pangs from an empty wallet teaches self discipline .Get a minimum wage job kid,study evenings and weekends.

Start a business,bootstrap:your first clients are your source of financing.At least you know there's a market for your ideas.

Kid wants to create an app.Learn to code.You can learn for free.Your first 100 apps will be ignored,but you will have learnt to code.Now you can teach others to code.There's always someone lazier then you.They prefer a structured course,rather then breaking the code themselves.Sell your knowledge.

A gymnast can handle a job and study better than any other kid. A gymnast can handle the 100 failures before success.

boy, do i concur with that one.