WAG College question for coaches or parents/athletes who have been there done that

[my4buffaloes]

James altucher has a very negative outlook on a college degree! I did not do any of what you quoted here. That was not the college education I received and I truly hope that is not what college is like these days. How sad!

 

[gymdog]

Went to college, it was fine, graduated early. Never even been drunk, much less tried LSD. LSD isn't really even a party drug of choice anymore, but that's not really the point here, just made me chuckle a bit in 2014. LSD.

I'm very open to alternative experiences. There are successful people who haven't gone to college. But it does tend to give you something to fall back on. Fear of my child making a wrong decision or even experimenting with substances wouldn't really hold me back either. If you really think they can't or won't do that outside of or before college, that's fairly naive. Many kids will have gone through that stage before ever even entering college, although one would hope not if they are a higher level athlete.

 

[Natalia]

Ecstasy,MDMA,molly,meth...whatever helps you on your journey man.

Seriously,the question is ROI,return on investment.The cost of college education is often a very poor financial investment .Learning to generate multiple streams of income is safer ,faster and cheaper then most college education.

Knowledge and cultural enrichement can be obtained for free.Financial freedom or even stability is a result of entrepreneurial skills.These skills are learnt.

The 2008 crisis allowed corporations to dump the dead weight.That middle administration layer.They are moving towards tempworkers,outsourcing,crowdsourcing.

Use you and dump you within hours.

It's a brave new world,a college degree will mean nothing.

Edit:I dropped out of law school when I was 18.Got my Scuba instructor certificate and went to work in Cuba for four years.I learned cross cultural negociation,spanish,the frailty of human dignity,the true importence of democracy,the lies spun by the media,the desire to risk your life to cross the sea on a raft when you know you have NOTHING to loose.....man who needs law school

 

[gymdog]

This may vary by country at this point.

 

[bookworm]

Maybe I'm missing something here but Natalia, are your posts in jest? My college experience is nothing like you describe although I'm sure there were those that did have those forays..it seems like you are painting the college experience with a broad brush of doom....Reading your posts,I forget what the OP was asking...

 

[raenndrops]

6. Parents are scammed. If you are a parent and wish to send your kids to a college then, just to summarize, here is what you are paying for:

• your kids are going to have sex 1- 5 times a day with people you probably wouldn’t approve of. Of all of my friends, none of us had sex that often... and I had a couple of friends that made it through freshman year without sex... one made it all the way through senior year
• your kids are going to drink, smoke pot, probably try LSD and other drugs before you even get home Nothing harder than alcohol - but never got drunk. My roommates didn't even drink and one was a senior.
• your kids are going to cheat on most of their exams. When I first started college I wanted to be a psychologist. I read every book on psychology. In Psych 101 I got a D- on my first exam, which was graded on a curve. Apparently the other 2000 kids in the class had access to older exams which were stored at all the fraternities and the professor never changed the exams. I had to ultimately drop Psych as a major. My dad said, “why do you want to major in Psychology anyway. Girls won’t like you because you won’t make any money as a psychologist.” I said, “but then I’ll never know if the girls like me for money or not?” And he said, “Girls won’t like you because you have money. They’ll like you because YOU ARE THE KIND OF GUY who can make a lot of money.” I never cheated on an exam. Neither did any of my friends. We got by on studying a little and praying a lot.
• your kids are going to make connections with other like-minded individuals (people focused on drugs, socialism, sex 24 hours a day (not a bad thing), people cheating on exams, and people with rich parents who will help your kids get jobs at Goldman Sachs). I made friends with people who were totally unlike me... but I am still friends with most of them 23 years later.
• your kids are going to think they are smarter than you almost immediately. I have always been smarter than my parents, but they already knew that before i started high school.
• while you are working 60 hours a week and borrowing money to send your kids to college, your kids will be sleeping good chunks of the day, relaxing on the weekends, and enjoying the blissful pleasures of the lazy life for another four years until the real world hits I actually stayed in college for 9+ years as an undergrad. Earned 2 degrees. Lived in a dorm freshman year... transferred to a branch campus and lived at home the rest of the time. I worked part-time at school, helped out at home, coached baseball, taught swim lessons, taught my little sister to tie her shoes and ride a bike, babysat, tutored others, studied an hour or so a month.

http://www.jamesaltucher.com/2011/01/8-alternatives-to-college/

 

[wnl256]

• your kids are going to have sex 1- 5 times a day with people you probably wouldn’t approve of.
• your kids are going to drink, smoke pot, probably try LSD and other drugs before you even get home
• your kids are going to cheat on most of their exams.
  
• while you are working 60 hours a week and borrowing money to send your kids to college, your kids will be sleeping good chunks of the day, relaxing on the weekends, and enjoying the blissful pleasures of the lazy life for another four years until the real world hits

Clearly I went to the wrong college. I want to go to that college!

 

[dani4]

Ecstasy,MDMA,molly,meth...whatever helps you on your journey man.

Seriously,the question is ROI,return on investment.The cost of college education is often a very poor financial investment .Learning to generate multiple streams of income is safer ,faster and cheaper then most college education.

Knowledge and cultural enrichement can be obtained for free.Financial freedom or even stability is a result of entrepreneurial skills.These skills are learnt.

The 2008 crisis allowed corporations to dump the dead weight.That middle administration layer.They are moving towards tempworkers,outsourcing,crowdsourcing.

Use you and dump you within hours.

It's a brave new world,a college degree will mean nothing.

Edit:I dropped out of law school when I was 18.Got my Scuba instructor certificate and went to work in Cuba for four years.I learned cross cultural negociation,spanish,the frailty of human dignity,the true importence of democracy,the lies spun by the media,the desire to risk your life to cross the sea on a raft when you know you have NOTHING to loose.....man who needs law school

I agree that the current system where everyone gets a college education and it only pays off for half of the population is not really working. But that's no excuse for nihilism.

Anyway, to the OP: Princeton is practically free, if it's Princeton your friend is set. Harvard gives good money, from what I hear. The others, I'm not sure about. You couldn't pay me to go to Cornell.

 

[profmom]

That is quite interesting, Natalia. This thread is about college in the United States. If you were attending law school at age 18, you either matriculated as an undergraduate at age 15 or so or your educational experience is not in the United States.

One of the really cool things that college can do, if a student is inclined, is to teach critical thinking. This enables a person to understand and differentiate between random internet screeds about how higher education sux and the actual, high quality, peer-reviewed research that shows the concrete benefits that a college education can provide to the willing learner.

Of course, if you raise your kids to take what they can get, go the easy road, and believe that the end justifies any means, then yes, you may well waste your money to send a child off to cheat and drink and drug her/himself through college. But the nice thing about gymnasts is that most of them learn through their experience in the sport the very skills that will equip them well to take full advantage of college.

If you don't know anything about higher ed and how it works, it would be awesome if you could avoid cluttering the thread with ill informed nonsense.

 

[Seeker]

Yes, critical thinking is a valuable skill.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Clearly I went to the wrong college. I want to go to that college!

hahahahaha...reminiscent of the 60's and early 70's.

 

[Natalia]

Yes I cheapened the tone of the discussion by quoting Altuchers' "Sex,drugs and rock and roll"post

That blog post gave me a chuckle,I have followed Altuchers work for nearly 10 years now,when we both worked in finance.I sometimes forget the reactions his words get.

Putting the fun to the side for a second.I encourage everyone to read this serious article http://money.cnn.com/2013/06/25/news/economy/malemployment-rate/.

My intention was never to question knowledge,cuture or the value of critical thinking.My serious intention behind the light trolling undertones of my comments was to encourage you to question the financial wisdom of investing money in a college degree.

There are numerous serious worthy articles in the Wall street journal,the Financial times,the economist...

It ain't your old mans' college degree is what I'm saying

 

[MaryA]

Well said, Profmom.

I suppose there's no risk in taking this topic any further afield from what the OP intended, so I'll just dive in.

There are definitely plenty of other good choices besides a 4-year college. Many of the youth that I work with attend a trade school, and plenty of trade school graduates have, in a year or two, better job security and better salary than I have with my masters degree. The need for nurses is increasing exponentially and you can get a foot on the healthcare ladder with a month-long CNA course, sometimes for free. But then, of course, to move up that ladder, you need increasing amounts of education. LPN, RN, and upwards.

However, it's hard to imagine a world without college graduates... doctors, lawyers, teachers, scientists.... maybe we are going forth into a brave new world of MOOCs, but it is hard to imagine that they will ever entirely replace a formal education for a very many professions.

But, as the article states, the major you choose matters. There was a point in my life where I would have extolled the virtues of education for education's sake, and it's not that I don't believe there is value in that. But I do think I would try to steer my kids away from Art History, Philosophy, etc.

For what it's worth, I am not working (nor do I expect I ever will again) in a field where I am using either of my degrees, but I did need to HAVE a college degree to be hired in my current profession.

 

[Natalia]

Oh,my personal educational backround:

1991-graduated high school at 16 years of age.
1993- July completed my DEUG en droit (associate degree in law).
1993-September began my liscence (bachelors degree in law.
1993.December.I dropped out.

My mother had her PHD in philosophy from the Sorbonne,she was a university lecturer.
My father was a professor of classical history and published study guides.He was an academic entrepreneur.

When I dropped out of higher education my dad just said "Nourish your mind and live life to the fullest,you'll be fine"

Just like Altucher I have known life through the perspective of the middle class (illusion of safety).I have lived as a member of the privileged class (illusion of grandeur).I have lost it all and lived dirt poor broke (illusion of eternal suffering,googling the easiest way to end it all).

I know that reality is the illusion we hold onto at any given point.That is why I question everything.
I believe myself to be a critical thinker.

That is all

 

[profmom]

Pop journalism is not my go-to source for good information. Obviously anyone who's looking to invest more than 10K in something should research the options and try to make the best decision possible; in my opinion, borrowing $50K+ to go to/send your child to a weak liberal arts college is foolish. But for my part, rather than assuming that my children will be the outliers who "OMG, like, I didn't go to college and I am, like, super successful now!", I prefer that they play the odds. See, e.g., http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2014/02/11/the-rising-cost-of-not-going-to-college/

Now the Pew researchers probably won't be on any talk shows telling people about how to get rich through marketing themselves or new apps for IPhones or providing anecdotes about religion majors who are now $100K in debt and can't find jobs. They are too busy doing things like running regressions with census data that show what one can expect for most people who make the choice to go or not go to college.

But to each her/his own. I could go on, but I'll get off my soapbox.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

education is still food for the mind. one of the most invaluable tools for life.

 

[gymgal]

Natalia is correct in the sense that, as a nation, we push far too many kids toward college (and waste a lot of taxpayers dollars) when many of them should be steered toward trade schools and apprenticeships, which will provide immediate job opportunities. For the past 20+ years, this country has pushed that college is the way out of poverty... This is simply untrue. Half of the students who enter college will not finish, but will still have the debt they accrued from it, with no reasonable job security to pay that debt. The way out of poverty is a good paying secure job with little/no debt from education/training.

Yes, we still need people to go to college. My field field requires a master's degree and certification. Most professional careers require master's degrees and beyond. And yes, we need to provide real financial support to those who want to go into these fields but do not have the means to pay for college. But it is simply ridiculous for a country to promote "college for all" just to say their citizens are all college educated.

As for the OP's question, I am happy to hear that the Ivy leagues can/do find ways to entice athletes financially, despite not having athletic scholarships. My nephew attends a small private college (not ivy). His financial responsibility was only a little more to that of what it would have been if he attended his publicly funded state school. So it does pay to inquire. You never know...

 

[profmom]

Sorry, I cannot stop myself.

-- Do not send your child to a for-profit college, university, or trade school that derives 80% or more of its revenue from loaned tuition dollars.

-- If you opt to have your child go to community college before matriculating at a four-year university, investigate two-year graduation rates and successful transfer rates carefully. Not all community colleges are equal, and some do a great job of prepping students to make the jump.

-- Do not sneer at your public university just because it's public. Many are as good or better than private universities, and some states have outstanding campuses that focus on undergraduate education.

-- Do not encourage your child to select a major based on some expected career or the latest thing shared on the internet about hot/not hot majors. Your child will do much better and therefore have many more options if s/he majors in something s/he enjoys.

-- Do encourage your child to pick a challenging major that will teach solid reasoning and writing skills. If s/he majors in the sciences, encourage her/him to pick up some course work in a minor that will require significant writing. Gen ed isn't enough.

-- Universities with strong first year programs tied to residential living do a much better job not only of retaining students but of having them get through their degrees successfully in four years. Look for this.

-- Tuition these days is a lot like airfares. Depends on who's asking and on what day of the week. Do your homework, and if you have a scholarship offer elsewhere, communicate this to your most desired schools.

-- Do not allow your child to undersell her/himself by only applying to the easy reaches, but do not encourage her/him to overapply to schools where you know there's no chance without a good back up in the back pocket. Members of racial minorities and lower income students sell themselves short way too often.

Most of all, don't try to game this alone based on the latest edition of US News and World Report. (The rankings are garbage.) Talk seriously to people who know the institutions your child is considering and to people who know about a range of institutions and can help you do the comparisons. Be a smart shopper, and a lot of things should fall into place well for your child.

 

[MaryA]

Wow, Profmom... when my kids approach college age, you are going to be my go-to woman for college-related questions!

 

[Midwestmommy]

Thanks everyone!! Well one thing I've gleaned from this is that for an exceptionally strong student/athlete the Ivy League schools may offer something special that I had never considered before this week, cool. They turn away tons of exceptionally bright kids, so here is one way sports may benefit a few athletes in an unexpected way.