Confused Coach

[fishchimes]

If it were me, and I'd already tried to tell them, I'd be sorely tempted to let them compete their unallowable skills at the meet and then laugh my butt off when they had their eyes opened. But if you want to take the mature route, print out "optional requirements chart" and show it to them:

:: USA Gymnastics :: Women's JO Code of Points Updates ::

Sounds like your coach thinks Cs are still allowable in level 8, and is not up to date on the changes. This could be a problem for all levels.

 

[GetaGrip]

If it were me, and I'd already tried to tell them, I'd be sorely tempted to let them compete their unallowable skills at the meet and then laugh my butt off when they had their eyes opened. But if you want to take the mature route, print out "optional requirements chart" and show it to them:

:: USA Gymnastics :: Women's JO Code of Points Updates ::

Sounds like your coach thinks Cs are still allowable in level 8, and is not up to date on the changes. This could be a problem for all levels.

Haha! I've definitely thought about that! I also thought that it wouldn't be fair to Hana or Christiana (the other level 8) so I tried to warn them but they didn't really get it.

I'll print out the new rules and hope for the best with my coach then I guess.

Is it .5 or 2.00?

 

[Doubledouble]

I know the code of points says 2.00, and I know we, as well as some other gyms, got hit with that deduction last year. However, the overview of requirements USAG has in with their new, updated version of Rules and Policies 2010-2011 says it is 0.5 for each unallowable element. We have a judging clinic next weekend so I'll have to ask for clarification on this rule then. Sorry to not be sure!

 

[gymdog]

It should be .5, not 2.00. That is what the current rules say. There was a time when an unallowable element in L8 was a 2.00 deduction, but that's no longer the current rule.

 

[LMV]

Well that would be pretty unusual, but yeah, she still has two allowable elements connected so she's fine (except for the unallowable one). If she were to do BHS-BT, and then no other acro series that fulfills the level 8 requirements, then she would be missing a series. Another possibility would be not having enough value parts. So if the kid is doing 3 Bs and a C as one of their elements in level 8, they're missing a B.

Our daughter was originally doing some L7-L8 training during winter 2008-2009 [with the original intention to score out of L7 and then compete L8 in 2009 into 2010]. She apparently learned this series, loved it, and was going to use it in her beam routine. She wanted it in her L8 beam routine but was told she couldn't because the back tuck would incur a deduction. She still really wants to do it so they may let her do it and take the deduction if the rest of the routine is solid.

 

[gymdog]

Our daughter was originally doing some L7-L8 training during winter 2008-2009 [with the original intention to score out of L7 and then compete L8 in 2009 into 2010]. She apparently learned this series, loved it, and was going to use it in her beam routine. She wanted it in her L8 beam routine but was told she couldn't because the back tuck would incur a deduction. She still really wants to do it so they may let her do it and take the deduction if the rest of the routine is solid.

That's awesome, triple series are very underused, also I think I saw some comments about that at Congress or maybe in technical committee notes, I wouldn't be surprised if at some point in the future there's a rule change to encourage more triple series. hmm...personally if she could BHS BHS BT on the beam I would work with her and turn it into a dismount for now (also keep working it on a beam and train more triple series trying to integrate the layout)...that's great progress towards the higher level dismounts. She could do BHS BHS back full dismount (off the end) without incurring any deduction. Still pretty challenging to work on but within the rules.

 

[LMV]

That's awesome, triple series are very underused, also I think I saw some comments about that at Congress or maybe in technical committee notes, I wouldn't be surprised if at some point in the future there's a rule change to encourage more triple series. hmm...personally if she could BHS BHS BT on the beam I would work with her and turn it into a dismount for now (also keep working it on a beam and train more triple series trying to integrate the layout)...that's great progress towards the higher level dismounts. She could do BHS BHS back full dismount (off the end) without incurring any deduction. Still pretty challenging to work on but within the rules.

Her gym seems to just try to really connect the whole beam routine together as much as possible. She is currently doing a front layout as her dismount because her coach thought she had too much back tumbling [she also does a back extension roll into handstand with some splits and a stradle down and the FWO-BWO combo]. I'm not completely up on all of the rules or routine composition but I guess that makes sense from a balance standpoint. When I'm watching practice I'm mainly watching to make sure she is doing ok from a physical health and stamina standpoint.

 

[gymdog]

Her gym seems to just try to really connect the whole beam routine together as much as possible. She is currently doing a front layout as her dismount because her coach thought she had too much back tumbling [she also does a back extension roll into handstand with some splits and a stradle down and the FWO-BWO combo]. I'm not completely up on all of the rules or routine composition but I guess that makes sense from a balance standpoint. When I'm watching practice I'm mainly watching to make sure she is doing ok from a physical health and stamina standpoint.

There is a deduction for missing forward/backward/side acro (.1 each), although the FWO would cover the forward acro (having the dismount only is still a .05 deduction). However one reason the front dismounts have become popular is if the girl can do a front full, they have a C dismount (the requirement for L10) whereas many girls tend to be afraid or have technical problems with doing a RO/BHS 1.5 back twist or RO double twist.

 

[LMV]

There is a deduction for missing forward/backward/side acro (.1 each), although the FWO would cover the forward acro (having the dismount only is still a .05 deduction). However one reason the front dismounts have become popular is if the girl can do a front full, they have a C dismount (the requirement for L10) whereas many girls tend to be afraid or have technical problems with doing a RO/BHS 1.5 back twist or RO double twist.

Ok all of these requirements are kind of interesting. Now I'm guessing that the side acro requirement is why he added a roundoff right after her mount before she goes into a leap and her walkover combination. Random question is there a rule about what they have to do for mounts at L8. Right now she is doing some thing where she jumps up off the spring board and lands on the beam. It probably has a name I don't know. She doesn't really like it but it worked better with the roundoff than the mount she wanted. Now I wonder if she just did the RO-BHS-BHS for her series if it would take care of all the requirements and she could do the mount she wanted originally. I'm tempted to suggest that to her and see if she wants to suggest that to her coach but I don't want to meddle too much as a mom. [I'm still trying to figure the balance of all of that out.]

 

[gymdog]

Ok all of these requirements are kind of interesting. Now I'm guessing that the side acro requirement is why he added a roundoff right after her mount before she goes into a leap and her walkover combination. Random question is there a rule about what they have to do for mounts at L8. Right now she is doing some thing where she jumps up off the spring board and lands on the beam. It probably has a name I don't know. She doesn't really like it but it worked better with the roundoff than the mount she wanted. Now I wonder if she just did the RO-BHS-BHS for her series if it would take care of all the requirements and she could do the mount she wanted originally. I'm tempted to suggest that to her and see if she wants to suggest that to her coach but I don't want to meddle too much as a mom. [I'm still trying to figure the balance of all of that out.]

There's no requirement for the mount at any of the levels. A running jump off a springboard could be a lead up to a front tuck mount which could be used for bonus in L9 and 10. Some level 8s also use the mount as one of their value parts if they're doing something with a B value. Some coaches are also concerned with using mounts that are overly complicated, since it's not a requirement and can't be used for bonus in L8, they don't want there to be so much potential for falls or form deductions. Also, psychologically starting off the routine with a fall on the mount is rough, of course.

 

[LMV]

There's no requirement for the mount at any of the levels. A running jump off a springboard could be a lead up to a front tuck mount which could be used for bonus in L9 and 10. Some level 8s also use the mount as one of their value parts if they're doing something with a B value. Some coaches are also concerned with using mounts that are overly complicated, since it's not a requirement and can't be used for bonus in L8, they don't want there to be so much potential for falls or form deductions. Also, psychologically starting off the routine with a fall on the mount is rough, of course.

She actually wanted one of those press handstand mounts where she does some splits and turns out of it. The coach got rid of the mount but let her do the splits and turns from a back extension roll in her routine proper. He is probably trying to be progressive and I guess the dynamic fit better with the roundoff than the press did.

 

[GetaGrip]

Just attempted to warn coach again to no avail.

Last season hana had q five tenth deduction for no doing a layout by itself in level 7 and he blamed her.

 

[Mag_7_Fan96]

At this point I think you've tried everything. The best thing you can do is let them figure it out for themselves AT competition. When they get a .5 deduction for each skill that isn't allowed they'll learn. Just try to resist the urge to say "I told you" when that happens.

What about you're routine? Is he making you do skills that aren't allowed?

 

[Pineapple_Lump]

I would be looking for another gym. With the yelling, punishment and simply not knowing rules, this sounds like a coach who does not care about their gymnasts.

 

[gymluvr33]

I know others have said this, but I'll echo them again...Are you absolutely sure that there is no way you can switch gyms?