WAG Mom getting upset at L3 workout schedule - with L2's!

[TxGymMom1]

Perhaps it's your use of ALL CAPS. Typically, that portrays anger or a high level of emotion. And telling Dunno he adds nothing to the conversation. You haven't been around long enough to understand he KNOWS what he is talking about.

People come here for advice - some is what they want to hear, some is not.

Again, thank you for your response.

 

[TxGymMom1]

Again, thank you for your response.

I should've also pointed out that I used CAPS on certain words - not because of being angry, but instead to emphasize a point. Thanks again - I will try to NOT use caps in the future.

 

[TxGymMom1]

I DO see it as an issue. It is all well and good to say that level 3 is only a rec level and it doesn't matter; but it sounds like the girls are starting to train level 4, which is a required level and going ahead and working those skills is important for a kid who is coming up on her last meet of level 3. It doesn't sound like it is "just" that these two kids have been given the chance to train some with the 3s. They competed a season of level 2 and were moved up to level 3. Now they ARE level 3s, almost done with their season at that level. Somehow some days of the week there is room for them with the level 3/4 group; but not other days? On those days are there less coaches or something?

If the girls have competed a season of level 2 and then were moved to level 3 then the gym should figure out a way to have room for them with the level 3s. Even if they can't do that, then they should have them working level 3 even when with the level 2s. They are NOT level 2s getting to work up, they ARE level 3s. They are almost done with their level 3 season. What happens next? They are level 4s only allowed to work level 3 skills 2 practices per week?

For my younger DD she is training level 4. She has 3 days of practice right now. Two days it is just the girls training level 4. One day all of the compulsories work together. On those days the different levels still train their level. So my DD might run through and do a cartwheel and the level 2s might end up sticking with that for a bit; but the other girls do one and then move to round offs. Once they have shown they have that, they move to ROBHS. If they are working say, beam routines, my DD would work the level 4 routine, NOT the level 2 or 3 routine. It makes no sense for these two little girls to be sitting on the side with the level 2s, watching the level 3s do their routines instead of having them do a routine run through too.

The whole set up would make me not happy. And that the coach wouldn't talk to me about it would make me even more unhappy. If the coach in deed wasn't willing to talk about it and come up with a better solution then I would start to consider that the gym isn't the best fit for my child. Most gyms around here try to really push the young kids who show early talent, not hold them back.

Oh, and while level 2 and 3 are both rec levels, they are very different levels.

By far this is my favorite response -- you nailed it! Thank you for making me feel as though I am WRONG to feel this way. I do feel as though we have a good gym and qualified coaches -- but as another person pointed out -- there is not always a level playing field and as a mother, that bugs me. I do NOT let my DD know my thoughts on this -- she has her own feelings about it. I do continue to encourage her and to enjoy spending time with her former teammates. With that being said, it bothers me to have to pay for the unfair treatment. And to answer your question -- our gym is short a team coach - they say - so on certain days (when the L4's are there) - our TWO girls would make that group even larger. That doesn;t make me like it -- for the time being, I try to watch NONE of the practice with L2's.

 

[Midwestmommy]

I am a little late to chime in on this one, but it appears that you daughter is 7 and practicing 4 days a week? And she is already part of their JO team. She is getting plenty of opportunity for training and in the next few years if she is meant to speed ahead through the levels, she will. Or she might do a level or two a year and blossom in four more years or something.

I really do not think it's being a "stepford wife" to not get so worked up about levels and such if a seven year old is already selected for the JO track and is there four days a week. Be in a gym where you trust the coaches and let them decide this stuff if you do trust them. It's a kids sport, it's not that big of a deal. The sport requires so much time and money and commitment on the part of parents, that it is kind of easy for any of us to slip into getting too overinvolved with it. And that is not healthy for young girls or boys or moms or dads.... The other post about watching or not watching too much? I cannot even imagine having 9 to 20 hours a week to sit or stand and watch anything......definitely not a kids' sports practice. I think it's fine to watch here and there but a parent being there that amount of time, well of course it's a red flag about perspective/pressure on the child. Unless they have an hour drive each way and are on their computers working or something. If she is meant to be a level 10 she will get there one day.... In the meantime enjoy it more and stress out about it less. You pay the coaches to do that. Childhood and parenting are a series of fleeting moments, it's important to remember to enjoy it!

 

[meganliz77]

A reply to you both -- I do not see any drama here -- that is a word that you both put into the post. What I did was ask a question to the coach/parents. While YOU may consider L2 and L3 a "rec" class/team -- that is NOT the way it is. I believe I also alluded to the fact that I was told by the coach that it was more of an AGE issue and NOT A SKILL one. After all, her scores on L3 are consistantly among the top 3 on the team -- and yes, that includes the older girls who DO receive more hours and more uptraining. One more thing, it is MY understanding that the kip is one of the more difficult skills to master for L4 -- just so you know, she got her first TEN kips yesterday (unassisted). So while you may see it as a "big jump" from L3 to L4 -- I disagree. Thanks for your input

For the record.... I never used the word drama.... And you also added a bunch of stuff in your reply that did not involve anything that I said in my reply.

Hey, I get it... My 7 yo DD has (and at the beginning of the season had) all of her level 4 skills. She is competing level 3 and although is allowed some up training - it kills her to not be with the level 4's. Oh and my daughter has out scored all of them (even the 12 yo's) Funny though-- the level 4's that were moved up are all older than she is and I have to wonder if that's the bigger reason they were moved up. I can choose to ruminate over it or trust the coaching staff. I choose to trust the coach. To each their own.

MY point in the previous post was echoed by many other posters -- your daughters response to this whole situation will be significantly influenced by the messages and/or validation she receives from you about it. The defensiveness in your reply is perplexing. The reality is these lower levels, in the grand scheme of things, are important for fundamentals but not the end all be all. This is the beginning.


Congrats to your DD on getting her KIP!! That's awesome!

 

[Mom2G&D]

OP… I completely understand where you are coming from - as I've stated before. What I don't get is:

1. Why individuals here are suggesting your question is creating drama. It was a legitimate question to ask and people should be respectful.

2. Why other posters are comparing "being allowed to up train with the next level" to "being a successful member of the current level." It's comparing apples to oranges. The situation is NOT the same.

3. Why you are being accused of not liking other's responses when you are trying to explain that the situations they are referring to are not comparable.

In no other area would anyone feel like it was OK to pay for a service and accept less then what was being offered to everyone else for the same amount. You did not demand your daughter be moved up. They moved her up. You didn't earn the scores in the top 3 of her new team (despite being younger). She did. You did not get her L4 skills before other L3 teammates. She did. She EARNED her spot.

Why is it OK for the coaches to say that, based on her age, she needs to be moved down a level to train because of numbers? Is her behavior an issue? (I am not suggesting this and see nothing that supports that assumption.) So, alternatively, why wouldn't the coaches move the bottom 2 scoring L3 kids down to work with the L2 girls? I mean, clearly they would need the most work on the fundamentals and proper form - right?

Furthermore, I agree with previous posters who stated that the coaches could alleviate this situation to a large extent if they simply let the girls train their L3/L4 skills while they were working with the L2 group. Multiple levels training together is very common. Why can't this solution (if they must do it by age) work?

Good luck….. I hope your daughter continues to love and thrive in the sport of gymnastics!

 

[munchkin3]

Just a bit of the other side.
We have a L3 training with the L4 and up group during the evening session. Over the years, the only way to make it to the evening 'night' group was to complete L3 AND have a glide kip. No exceptions. Many girls endured years of making it on time to the early practice, or having siblings in different workouts, (early L2 and L3 vs. late L4 and up) because of the dreaded KIP.....

Fast forward after some changes in personnel, one day a L3 girls shows up at the night practice twice a week for reasons I wont go into.
Setting aside the 'earn your dues' stripes that group feels, this girl is much younger and needs more attention. She requires more direction from the coach and gets off task easier. This can be a problem when the coaches are spotting bigger skills and need to focus more.

I am over it, but even the coach admitted it de-stabilized the team because she is a young, more immature although a talented gymnast......she should be with her team which is all made up of young talented L3s that should have worked their butts off the get the skills needed to advance to the coveted 'night' group. Once they get there, they are pretty serious about gymnastics.

Please dont think I am comparing this exactly, but I just want to make a point for the other side....age can matter.

 

[profmom]

I am very confused by your post, Mom2. The girl in question moved up a level and was offered the opportunity to train part-time with the group with which she is now competing. She's paying for the training, not for the privilege of competing at a particular level. I think it is important to have conversations with people so that we are not writing imaginary contracts with them in our heads and then becoming angry when they are not enforced. Clearly the OP believes that workout groups should coincide with levels of competition. Just as clearly, that is not how her gym does things. I go back to what I said originally. If the OP is so bothered by this that she can't get past it and figure it will all sort itself out when they redo the groups, she needs to find a gym that does things the way she wants them done for her daughter. No parental trust in the program and progressions = bad experience for the gymnast. This goes no matter what any of us may think of the mom's position or the gym's on this question.

 

[wallflower]

You have used the term "level playing field" several times and I just wanted to add that the sooner you realize that doesn't exist in gymnastics the better off you will be. Focus on your individual child and try to worry too much about what someone else is getting vs what she is getting. Obviously if your daughter is scoring pretty well and getting skills then what the coaches are doing is working. Maybe, just maybe, they are doing what's best for her within the context of the team.

At the lower levels parents tend to focus WAY too much on what group their child is practicing with, what the group is called, etc. It's all gymnastics and you will find as they get older that groups can be fluid, the label really doesn't matter as long as they are learning gymnastics. I have a 9 year old level 9 and she sometimes practices with level 6's. Do I care? No, not at all. Do I question why the coaches put her there instead of with the 13-14 year old level 9/10 group? Nope. I assume it's what works for their team that day.

 

[TxGymMom1]

OP… I completely understand where you are coming from - as I've stated before. What I don't get is:

1. Why individuals here are suggesting your question is creating drama. It was a legitimate question to ask and people should be respectful.

2. Why other posters are comparing "being allowed to up train with the next level" to "being a successful member of the current level." It's comparing apples to oranges. The situation is NOT the same.

3. Why you are being accused of not liking other's responses when you are trying to explain that the situations they are referring to are not comparable.

In no other area would anyone feel like it was OK to pay for a service and accept less then what was being offered to everyone else for the same amount. You did not demand your daughter be moved up. They moved her up. You didn't earn the scores in the top 3 of her new team (despite being younger). She did. You did not get her L4 skills before other L3 teammates. She did. She EARNED her spot.

Why is it OK for the coaches to say that, based on her age, she needs to be moved down a level to train because of numbers? Is her behavior an issue? (I am not suggesting this and see nothing that supports that assumption.) So, alternatively, why wouldn't the coaches move the bottom 2 scoring L3 kids down to work with the L2 girls? I mean, clearly they would need the most work on the fundamentals and proper form - right?

Furthermore, I agree with previous posters who stated that the coaches could alleviate this situation to a large extent if they simply let the girls train their L3/L4 skills while they were working with the L2 group. Multiple levels training together is very common. Why can't this solution (if they must do it by age) work?

Good luck….. I hope your daughter continues to love and thrive in the sport of gymnastics!

Very well stated I am glad that not everyone believes I have tried to create drama - where none exists. Thank you VERY MUCH for your response. And I agree -- let them ALL train together -- whichever level rather than holding back a top scorer due to her age. Behavior - no problems at all -- she is very quiet and focused. Only problem the coach has said is that he sometimes has difficulty hearing her because she is soft-spoken (at gym ONLY .. haha). Thanks again.

 

[Anna's_Mom]

Trust the coaches simply because they are coaches? No way! "Trust the *fill in authority figure here*" has been the cause of untold damage to way too many children over the years. This would be especially true if the coach had a financial interest in the gym. Then it makes more sense, on the business level, to restrict two girls from training the level they are successfully competing at than to hire another coach, or even bring an existing coach in for more hours. Also, just because it is the coach who is reporting this doesn't mean it's the coaches decision. The situation you describe makes a lot of sense on a $$ level (for the gym -- not you) which makes me very suspicious. Sadly, many businesses will make decisions on what is good for them, not necessarily their clients.

The only way the age thing makes sense to me is if they L3/4 group was old enough that, on the days your DD was with the L2, they were doing conditioning that isn't safe for younger girls and they didn't want to figure out a modification or didn't want to deal with the "but she gets to do X" whining from older girls. Assuming, of course, that you have said you are OK with her with older girls -- they do learn some things that you might wish they hadn't hanging out with older team mates. My DD was training with some high school girls when she was 9 and brought home some interesting questions...

At any rate, once the comp season is done I think you need to talk to coach and/or owner to see what the plan is for the next few months. At the very least, if they are going to treat your daughter as a 2 1/2, then you should only be paying tuition like a 2 1/2!

 

[Mom2G&D]

[QUOTE="profmom, post: 349951, member: 11006"
I am very confused by your post, Mom2. The girl in question moved up a level and was offered the opportunity to train part-time with the group with which she is now competing. She's paying for the training, not for the privilege of competing at a particular level. I think it is important to have conversations with people so that we are not writing imaginary contracts with them in our heads and then becoming angry when they are not enforced. Clearly the OP believes that workout groups should coincide with levels of competition. Just as clearly, that is not how her gym does things. I go back to what I said originally. If the OP is so bothered by this that she can't get past it and figure it will all sort itself out when they redo the groups, she needs to find a gym that does things the way she wants them done for her daughter. No parental trust in the program and progressions = bad experience for the gymnast. This goes no matter what any of us may think of the mom's position or the gym's on this question.
[/QUOTE]

This is, I guess, where we did not extract the same information from the prior posts.

You say: She's paying for the training, not for the privilege of competing at a particular level.
In no case was there ever a question about what level she was competing. I think it was pretty clear that she was asked to compete L3 and has been successful. In my opinion, if she was asked to compete L3, and is doing so, she should receive L3 training. NOT L2 training when the numbers don't line up. In many cases a girl competes L3, but trains L4. That makes since to me. The reverse does not - especially since she is prohibited from working on L3 skills when she is with the L2 group. That kind of floors me, because what's the point of her working on L2 skills she is not going to compete?

You also say: I think it is important to have conversations with people so that we are not writing imaginary contracts with them in our heads and then becoming angry when they are not enforced.
Are you suggesting I am referencing an imaginary contract? I am doing no such thing. I am merely stating that if my daughter was competing L3, I'd expect her to be offered L3 (or higher) training. I don't think that's unreasonable. If you do, then we can certainly agree to disagree. However, the OP asked for opinions. I gave her mine.

Finally, you say: If the OP is so bothered by this that she can't get past it and figure it will all sort itself out when they redo the groups, she needs to find a gym that does things the way she wants them done for her daughter. No parental trust in the program and progressions = bad experience for the gymnast.
Seems you are making assumptions here. She can be upset about something without being "so bothered by this that she can't get past it." In my opinion, she did the right thing (or attempted to) by trying to determine if this was a common place occurrence - presumably to put some perspective around it. Why does that give you the right to jump to conclusions about what she feels and believes?

And, I also have to say that this "trust" thing is thrown around way too much here. Ask yourself this. If it wasn't gymnastics - but maybe your daughter's classroom at school - would you tolerate this? Would you allow them to move your daughter to third grade (because she was advanced, does well at that level and is one of the top students in third grade), but then allow them to put her back in second grade when it's convenient for them? Even if it means she needs to "catch up" on what she may have missed in that third grade classroom? I sure wouldn't.

I may have referenced the coaching staff as those making the decisions. I agree it may have been the owners (as someone pointed out). In any case, I don't see the decision as being in the best interest of these two girls. Especially since the OP told us that the coach did not indicate that this decision was at all behavior related.

If this is indicative of what's to come, perhaps the OP should look for other gyms. However, communication is a useful tool in sorting these things out. The OP should be able to talk to the coaches/owners and get a reasonable explanation. If they can't give her one - that speaks volumes as to their business methods. At our gym, we don't necessarily always agree with all the decisions (or the rationale behind the decisions), but the owners/coaches are always willing to talk to parents when there are questions.

 

[raenndrops]

I am very confused by your post, Mom2. The girl in question moved up a level and was offered the opportunity to train part-time with the group with which she is now competing. She's paying for the training, not for the privilege of competing at a particular level. I think it is important to have conversations with people so that we are not writing imaginary contracts with them in our heads and then becoming angry when they are not enforced. Clearly the OP believes that workout groups should coincide with levels of competition. Just as clearly, that is not how her gym does things. I go back to what I said originally. If the OP is so bothered by this that she can't get past it and figure it will all sort itself out when they redo the groups, she needs to find a gym that does things the way she wants them done for her daughter. No parental trust in the program and progressions = bad experience for the gymnast. This goes no matter what any of us may think of the mom's position or the gym's on this question.

I think the main issue is that we are used to gyms that allow gymnasts to UPTRAIN... but in the case of OP's daughter and the other girl, they are being FORCED to DOWNTRAIN... and not even being allowed to train their current skills when they work with the lower group.
Our gym does mixed level training (at times, the entire team trains together)... they all train to their levels in these circumstances. If stations are set up, each level has their own requirements for each station. There is no LEGITIMATE reason OP's gym should not be REQUIRING that for L3s that practice with the L2 group.

 

[happychaos]

In no other area would anyone feel like it was OK to pay for a service and accept less then what was being offered to everyone else for the same amount. You did not demand your daughter be moved up. They moved her up. You didn't earn the scores in the top 3 of her new team (despite being younger). She did. You did not get her L4 skills before other L3 teammates. She did. She EARNED her spot.

Your gymmie may be the hardest worker, a top scorer, and get new skills first, but still not be moved up. If there are limited spots in the higher group, preference may be given to the older girls (to give them a chance), or the younger girls (the teeny phenoms everyone is so excited about), or the girls who have been at the gym since they were in diapers, or the girls whose parents are friends with the coach, or the girls who have the body type the coach prefers, or the girl whose mom is booster club president, or the girl who the coach thinks has the most potential, or......

There are so many factors that coaches use to determine move-ups and training groups. As a parent, I would like to see more transparency in the way these decisions are made, but I am not holding my breath. I can list several things I think my DD "earned" but was not given. I think many gym parents feel the same way. It's just the way gymnastics is.... Coaches will do what they want, and oftentimes there will be some unfairness. And parents will hate it.

Aside from pulling your DD from the gym, I don't think you have many options. The situation described may not be ideal, but it is certainly not outside the norm. There is a lot of "grin and bear it" in gymnastics. This is a great time to practice putting on your happy face, and focusing on the cool skills your DD is learning. This will be the first of many times you are called upon to do so.....consider it a right of passage

 

[Ruth]

Do you pay for level 2 or level3?

 

[profmom]

Why on earth would anyone pay the amount of money we pay to gyms to train our kids if we don't trust the coaches? If I didn't understand a decision coaches made about training groups, I'd ask them, and if the answer led me to distrust their training plan for my child, I'd rethink my commitment to the gym. Would you pay a few hundred or several hundred dollars every month to a car mechanic, doctor, or any other professional if you didn't trust that person's professional expertise and judgment? The school analogy is false, because school is not a private free market for the most part, though I will observe that people who distrust the public schools will often pursue other options.

I reiterate: if you don't trust the coaches' plan for your child, you need to switch gyms. Sooner rather than later. This isn't going to work if you have an adversarial, distrustful relationship with the people who are training your child.

OP, have you talked to the people who made the decision, asked them the rationale, and asked them how long the split group is going to be the plan?

 

[raenndrops]

The situation described may not be ideal, but it is certainly not outside the norm. There is a lot of "grin and bear it" in gymnastics. This is a great time to practice putting on your happy face, and focusing on the cool skills your DD is learning.

Right there are the two big problems OP has with the situation...
#1 - it is OUTSIDE of the norm to force a gymmie to DOWNTRAIN 1/2 of her practices every week. While it is normal to have mixed level groups, the NORM is to have the girls work on Level appropriate skills. This is not what is occurring. When she is with the L2s, she works L2 skills and runs L2 routines.... or watches the rest of her L3 teammates run their L3 routines in preparation for a meet that SHE was also going to be competing in as a L3.

#2 - 2 days a week, not only is she NOT working on learning NEW skills, she isn't even allowed to work on the skills in her CURRENT routines (unless they overlap with the lower level skills).

 

[Ali'sMom]

I wasn't sure I had been following, but now I definitely see:

She was moved up to Level 3, competes Level 3.
On those days that she practices with Level 2, she's not even allowed to do LEVEL 3 skills. Forget the fact that the other Level 3s are uptraining that day... maybe she isn't ready for Level 4 skills... (just devil's advocate on that one), but the fact that she's not allowed to do her OWN LEVEL 3 routines on those days? That would bother me.

We have had a lot of mixed groups, and on days when a coach called in sick, my DD (level 3 at the time) would practice with the L2s. I asked her "Are you doing your own skills, or are you doing what the 2s are doing?" The answer was "her own, Level 3". So I was cool with that. I think if that's what OP's daughter was doing, it would be better. Might still be upset about the lack of opportunity to uptrain on those days, but at least she'd be training her own level on those days.

At the lower levels parents tend to focus WAY too much on what group their child is practicing with, what the group is called, etc. It's all gymnastics and you will find as they get older that groups can be fluid, the label really doesn't matter as long as they are learning gymnastics. I have a 9 year old level 9 and she sometimes practices with level 6's. Do I care? No, not at all. Do I question why the coaches put her there instead of with the 13-14 year old level 9/10 group? Nope. I assume it's what works for their team that day.

When your Level 9 trains with the Level 6's, is she forced to do only L6 and below skills?

 

[Anna's_Mom]

Sorry - can't figure how to quote on my phone.

Profmom (and others)-if we all just go along with coach/gum decisions we don't agree with because "that's how gymnastics is" then how will it ever change? If it's not right I think we have an obligation to at least question and ask for what we are paying for and/or what is right. Politely and respectfully yes, but not just shrug it off. Coaches and gym owners are human-they make mistakes just like we do. But just like any other professional, they are not above those being pointed out and a correction requested. And while my area had about a dozen other options within easy distance, not everyone gas that luxury. But even with that option , I would feel it my duty to try to correct an unfair situation before considering just walking away.

 

[skschlag]

The fact is, however, that most gyms are private businesses, and can run the way they want. If you have options, then you shop around to find the one that best fits your child's needs. That is the key.

Now, having a conversation with the coach about their plan for your daughter would give you an idea of what to do. It sounds like she is doing really well with what is being done for her right now. But, I think chatting with the coach about how she would like to work her level 3 skills more so she can improve, and see waht the thought is behind it all isn't a bad idea.