Parents Trust in the process?

[B&M's mom]

As a parent to two gymnasts, I've pondered my role in this sport. I've gotten a lot of good advice on this forum about disengaging myself from my daughters' gymnastics but as my daughters have progressed, I've also found that there is a place for the parent that I think a lot of coaches tend to ignore. Coaches see the gymnast in the gym, they don't necessarily know what it going through the child's head. I get that end. From what I've gathered, their coaches, wonderful as they are, don't "talk" to the girls about issues and problems. So, I've tried to reach out to the coaches when I know that there's a big issue. Sometimes the coaches have responded and worked with my daughters to address the issue. Sometimes they ignore it and we have to make hard decisions.

One of my daughters is about to leave the sport, not because of a competing activity or injury or fear but because she was held back to polish a skill while other teammates who scored lower than she were allowed to move up and it wasn't a question of skill acquisition. She dutifully worked this season and won lots of medals, many gold and silver but was so bored. I warned the coach early on but the coach ignored my comments. So, she wants to try something new, doesn't know what, just something different. I'm sad because she truly enjoys gymnastics but I understand that another year or two of compulsories is not what she wants to do.

Communications between the parents and coaches are important, especially with the younger gymnasts. My 13 year old is getting better about talking with her coaches but even she won't bring up all issues with them. Instead, I hear about them from her and can then pass them on. She knows that I have contact with them and will tell them if I think it's important. It seems to work as she's flourishing this year.

Coaches, don't discount the importance of communication with parents.

 

[profmom]

DS's primary coach has made it clear to the team parents that he wants to know if there's something going on outside of the gym that might be having an impact on gym, and he did a great job with one of DS's teammates when the guy got himself really wound up about the pressure earlier this year. He'd been pushing the kid really hard, but after he talked with the mom about the kid's stomach problems and insomnia, he eased off and started giving him a little more positive feedback. It's probably a little easier for him, though, because he's only working with a handful of team guys -- I imagine it would be a whole different ballgame if he were training 30 or 40 kids.

 

[iwannacoach]

As a parent I get all of this and agree in principle, but as I have said in nearly every one of these threads, there needs to be a better way for parents to determine whether they can trust the coach to hold up his or her end of the bargain.
I completely agree and would like to see an impartial rating system that at least convey's a gyms proven competitive history. Information should be included about the process of moving kids into each level, such as x number of training hours is the average at y level..... the average ratio coach to gymnast ratio is.....

Not every coach out there is a dunno or an iwannacoach. There are plenty of coaches who spend half of practice on their cell phones, or don't know how to teach even if they were successful gymnasts themselves, or are verbally or emotionally abusive.



Dunno may take exception to being lumped together with yous truley, but you're on the right track. In the same context that I can't rate a child's mid to long term chances of making it past L7, I don't think you can fairly rate a coach. A relatively inexperienced young coach may take over a shambles of a team program topped by L5 kids, and send one off to L9 half nationals four years later. Another coach with elite feathers in their hat can just as likely become indifferent and lack the drive to get kids consistently past L8.

My only advice is to talk to your child about their right as an inexperienced adult, also known as a child, to question authority that fails the sniff test you've taught them to use. What sniff test you say??? Best you figure that out. If you hear about, or see a coach on their cell phone for more than the briefest occasional conversation, and it seems to be the coach's normal..... leave. I could offer more advice, but gotta move on for now.

My daughter and her coach are responsible for her success in the gym, but my responsibility as a parent is even bigger than that. I am responsible for safeguarding her physical and emotional well-being and providing her with the best possible opportunity to grow into a happy and productive adult. It is my job to make sure that all of the adults in her life are contributing to that and not working against it.

Indeed you are, can, and should do those things according to your own definition of each standard. A good fit is ideal, but the are folks on either side of this issue who lean so far in one direction or the other that it's nearly impossible to find an exact fit that doesn't begin bunch up in one area and sag here or there over time. The quest for a fit gets even harder when you live in a market area served by only a handful of gyms.

It all boils down to finding the best fit for your child, and staying behind the proverbial line drawn in the sand. That line being the one you accepted with the choice you made for, or with your child

 

[gracyomalley]

I mostly agree with dunno - and I love the thought of 16/L9/10 being when scores/placements count - it makes sense...

I have 2 kids in middle school who are serious about their "activities". With one I drop off to violin lessons/camps/symphony, etc - make sure he has the equipment he needs, and am available if the teachers contact me - A little like a banker and driver...and I watch him perform - but NOT every time anymore. If he wants to be a professional musician he's well past the point of me having advice or such! My daughter with gym is almost there - but at only 11 not quite. Her coach and she are in charge of what she does at practice and I try to leave that alone, despite being a CB frequent. I keep my mouth shut unless asked. I haven't watched practice of privates in over a year - She asks me if she can have a private (or the coach suggests) when roadblocks come up....I do have to drive her to meets - and they are all over a mountain range, so yes I go to them all - and I asked her if she was ready to have me miss one (a conflict with the boys meet schedule this season) - she said only if it was necessary - she wants me there - if only to do hair! (I think its more than that still). As she hits the teen years there will certainly be meets I miss....

As kids grow into adults parents have to let go of a lot, and when they are seriously involved in something like gym it happens sooner in some ways. We are the only ones who can feed them, make sure they sleep, do their homework, are emotionally healthy, etc....those are important roles and without them you coaches won't have much of a gymnast!!

Parents often want to know all about what their kids are doing because we are constantly weighing whether this is still the "right thing" for them - and at 11 they certainly are not in charge of that decision! (I would argue that at 16 they don't often know - but then we have less say...) To the outside world unless our kid is "going to the Olympics" this sport seems quite crazy!

I wonder how many of us ask all sorts of questions on CB but never peep up with our kids - I do, because I need to know for me - but I do "let it be"....

I would also second that you can't always trust even apparently trustworthy coaches - as my boys learned very painfully this year! And we parents are the ones who have kept that whole boys team going and on to regionals .....we DO have to pick up the pieces sometimes....please be kind when we seem to want too much information!

 

[shelovestoflip]

you can ask all these questions when she is a 16 year old level 9 or 10. that's the journey. and we can't answer all questions honestly because there is no crystal ball. that's the truth.

and i have recommended that parents not go to all the meets. at some point they need to be independent of their parents unintentional and sometimes negative opinions.

success can only be, and should only be, measured by the coach and athlete. it's not your place to do so. you can't possibly be a part of your child's journey because you will never have to do the work. and at some point if you are over involved, your child will resent your involvement because you can't relate to the copious amount of work that they must do.

and i don't consider any of what you have stated as restrictions. they are recommendations to live by if you want the best chance for your child to become a gymnast.

and i am submitting this respectfully. gymnastics is hard beyond comprehension. all things being equal, the parents job is to support their child and coach. the partnership is dysfunctional at best. and i reiterate, gymnastics is a dysfunctional sport. to watch what they go thru to accomplish what they do is not logical. if it were logical, all would progress at the same rate and arrive to their final destination together and equal. knowing that there are 53,000 level 5's and 800 bona fide level 10's tells it all.

and eventually, and as they get older, they don't want to talk to you about practice. we teach them to leave their baggage at the door when they come to practice, and leave their gym baggage in the locker room when they leave. and at 15? they're too tired to talk about practice. they just want to eat, do homework and go to bed to start the whole thing over again the next day. by that age they don't understand what all the questions are about at their job when they don't bug you about your job or what you did all day.

i'm not pulling this stuff out of my ear. THIS is what they tell us.

This. Is. Perfect!! As a mom of a 14 year old Level 9, I am right there with you 1000%!! And I practically spit out my drink when I read your 'eat, HW, bed' comment because indeed, that is the truth!! Just add to it, the other thing they want is our money and our gym taxi service!!!

It all goes too fast....we love our kids....we want what's best for them! And as they get older and they've been at the same gym for seemingly 100 years, we realize the coaches love our kids and want what's best for them, too. We need to trust the journey, even if we don't understand it at times!!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

let me clarify. i said "all things being equal". when i say that, it's what's in my head about all the GOOD programs in this country that are NOT on their cell phones. They're NOT emotionally abusive. Think of all the NOTS on this site. those are NOT what i'm referring to. i just don't get it 1/2 the time. i don't understand or know how to produce an athlete when you're on a cell phone all the time. and i don't get how coaches think their athletes will make it or go the distance if they don't eventually treat their athletes with respect. please understand my mind set when i post.

i was thinking last night. maybe some more insight to my mind and my posts.

i came from the era when parents did not go to meets. they didn't come to practice. the parents were all poor. most families had several children. they only had 1 car which the dad used for work. our generation 'invented' the carpool. and most mom's stayed home to take care of their kids and household. your entertainment was the Ed Sullivan show and Disney was a cartoon. not a destination.

we went to meets that began at 8 a.m. some ended at 3 in the morning the next day. we brought sleeping bags to meets. our mom's packed a bag lunch and dinner. we had to travel ALL over the country to compete because there were not yet gymnastics clubs all over as there are today. USAG was USGF (still is) and AAU also hosted competitions. we went where are coaches said we had to go.

fyi...our meals consisted of bacon and eggs or Cheerios or Lucky Charms or Coco Puffs in the morning. pancakes (special) on Sundays. bologna or liver (the cheapest meat back then) sandwiches. and dinner was stew, chili, chipped beef, mac and cheese with hot dogs and pasta on Sundays. and because i'm from the east, Scrapple was a real treat. and the Sunday dinner found EVERYONE there. Aunts, Uncles, Grandma's and Grandpa's, cousins, etc; and you DID NOT leave the table until you were excused by either your parents or grandparents. and then we had to clear the table and wash dishes and then towel dry them. no dishwashers yet...

parents would NEVER question a coach about anything. let alone anything personal going on in the family, school, etc; that might have affected their child's practice or performance. if it was personal? well...it was personal. even we weren't to speak about family troubles or someone flunking out or someone "sleeping' with another person, or having a 'drunk' dad or that you were being beaten at home. No way you would open your mouth. we knew what 'shame' was. and what 'shameful' behavior was. so in the scheme of things, parents weren't concerned with whether "Suzy" had her kip or not. and if you complained about it they told you to "shut up and work harder, mind your teacher (they usually called them teachers not coaches) or quit." "this discussion is over". it was a different time.

and us? never would you complain. ever. the sacrifices the parents (mine included) made for gymnastics was amazing. minimum wage was 90 cents an hour back then. if you dared complain, they would remind us how lucky and spoiled we were when the "kids in Africa had nothing" and that there were cemeteries that they could show us with children in them that never got the opportunities that we did. and that the countries that they came from didn't even know what gymnastics was. they would just tell us "to quit". well, that's not what we wanted. but they wouldn't listen to the 'venting'. and venting that most kids do today.

so see? some things never change. then or now. the sport was just as difficult then as it is now. we were just as good. we pointed our toes and kept our legs straight. and in most cases, the equipment held us back to what you now see kids doing today with their equipment that my generation provoked. i had straight arm giants on rings. but my shoulders are NOT what they should be today because our rings were suspended from steel beams. not a rig with springs/shocks at the attachment.

if you were lucky, the girls had 1 leo. us boys had 1 practice outfit...whatever that was. when you got home at night we had to wash our own workout stuff if you wanted it clean the next day. it's how we learned to wash clothes. our mom's wouldn't let us 'practice' on our 'good clothes'. and they did laundry during the week when we were in school. night time was for dinner. homework. and spend a 1/2 hour with your dad who went to bed before all of us.

now, i know that this sounds like the "i used to have to walk to school 8 miles each way and..." but it's not. it was a different time. we didn't have fire drills. we had 'cuban missile crisis' drills where we had to get under our desks and wait for the principle to come in to each room and tell you that you could now come out.

it was a different time. but the 1 thing that HAS NOT changed in all these years? gymnastics is the hardest sport that your kids will EVER endeavor. i know...as a former athlete and now a coach. parenting for me was quite simple. and coaching became an extension of that and our upbringing. it was a different time.

and my generation certainly did not have phones of any kind for personal use. our parents had 'rotary' phones and you were NEVER allowed to touch them let alone answer them. so, if your practices didn't go so well there were no phones to text home about our problems. and by time you got picked up it was all history anyway and forgotten about. cause you couldn't go home and complain lest you listen to the lectures about Africa and cemeteries...

 

[Fliptwisttumble]

I am very glad to have an open communication relationship with DD's coaches. For those parents with kids that are high level athletes, I can't imagine doing it without.

I didn't need to talk to them when she was in lower levels - I'd get a report card a couple of times a year, and that was fine. She was having fun, and that's all that mattered.

But now that the stakes are higher, she has very specific goals, and the coaches work with her to try to achieve them, it's harder on her, it's harder on them. Things that wouldn't bother what I'll call the "gymnastics equation" now set it out of equilibrium. Want to go on vacation? Better time it right. Injury? Heaven forbid, but if it happens, that requires much discussion. Family issues? Wow, definitely needs to be discussed with coaches. The equation quickly went from 2 variables to 3, albeit on a day to day technical discussion about gymnastics, it remains with the original 2 parties. As others have mentioned, my role is to ensure that we, the three parties in the equation, move along the same wave length, and to act as the discussion piece for my still 9 year old, to make sure that her expectations are reasonable, and those of the coaches are for our family. That if she needs something from them, or them from her, that it is all well understood.

But as to whether or not that front aerial gets put into her beam routine..... well I'm not involved in that decision, except to dry her tears at home when it didn't go the way she wanted.

 

[wnl256]

Dunno: it's a miracle you ever made it to adulthood.

 

[MaryA]

This made me think about a very interesting program on Fresh Air that talks about the cultural differences in parenting today vs one or two generations ago. It was really fascinating. http://www.npr.org/2014/02/04/27141...et-new-book-explores-the-paradox-of-parenting

Just an example of the discussion: Did your mom stay home? What was she? If so, she was a "housewife." Was the house clean? I know mine was. And dinner was on the table by 5:30 every night. The emphasis was on the home. Did you stay home? If so, you were a "stay at home mom." The emphasis has changed. Is your house clean? I know mine isn't. Nice to know I'm part of a trend and not just a slob!

I haven't read the book, but I would like to.

 

[cbifoja]

So much good stuff in this thread. Can I nominate it for sticky status?

I also appreciate the respect that our HC has for the parental support of the athlete. I couldn't have my child in a program that was anti-parent. HC seeks me out and communicates her thoughts about my daughter. When she has an off day, HC asks me if she got enough rest last night. If she has an off week, HC asks me if anything is going on at home. She invites questions and is open to my opinion. She doesn't always do what I want her to do, but even when we disagree, I feel like she's listened to me and taken my thoughts into consideration.

I take my cues from my DD as far as involvement. I am a single mom and she is an only child. For reasons too personal to go into on a public board, she is a bit clingy. She is socially immature. She has a health issue that sometimes requires my attending to. I stay for her but when she "releases" me, I'll go with no complaint. Sometimes, the only time I see my child for any length of time is through glass and I already see how fast she is growing up. I want to enjoy the time she wants to spend with me, even if it is just at the gym, because way too soon, she will not even want to acknowledge that she has a mother! LOL

 

[Deleted member D3987]

MaryA, you could have eaten off the toilets in the house i grew up in.

and cbifoja, i have been around a lot of sports my whole life. and including those that my own children participated in. without question, kids in gymnastics 'grow up' faster in their sport and faster than any other sport i have seen in our culture.

 

[my4buffaloes]

It can be so confusing! You want us to trust you and never stay and watch. But then you hear too many stories. How can I trust someone or something that I never witness? These are just little kids that don't always know when something isn't right. If parents never observe no one might realize that the kids are being treated horribly. Or that they are at a bad gym. Or that their child really isn't happy anymore. Or that everything is great. Or that my child is a behavior problem.

Honestly I watch practice a lot so that I can see my child. That and so I have a clue what they are talking about when they tell me they got x, y or z or that they are struggling with a, b or c. They leave for school at 7 go straight to the gym with the carpool and don't get home until 9 at night. And they are 9 and 13. I want to be a part of their life, they NEED me to be a part of their life. I don't bother my child when I watch. I don't bother the coaches before, after or during practice. I respect their space. But this is my child and they need to respect that I want to be there. Luckily I am at a gym that does.

Edited to add that when my child requests that I stay and watch I will do everything in my power to make that happen and THAT is sometimes why I am there. Not because I want to be, but because my child wants me to be.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

i understand your post. there is a delicate partnership between the parents, the coaches and the kids. i understand more than you know. it's a process. and because no 2 people are the same, the process is different for a coach each time around. but good coaches have some kind of open communication with parents. and more so with their kids. and you should hope that they do. coaches are part of the entire process raising a kid in to adulthood in the sport. and it's not easy for anyone.

and as you pointed out, your kids are 9 & 13 respectively. the time will come when they don't want you around and they won't want to talk about practice. this is true for almost everyone and a fact of gymnastics life. it's one of the small reasons that coaches try to avoid socializing with parents. the discussion will invariably turn to gymnastics and their kid at some point. after a meet, we don't want to talk about gymnastics either. we want to eat and go to bed to be ready for more of the same the next morning.

imagine if you will that your daughter or son is on national team. they get selected for a competition in a foreign country. you can go if you would like. but you will have no contact with them while you're there. you are not a part of the delegation being sent. and you will not be a part of what goes on at this type of competition. and your daughter is 15 years old. doesn't even drive a car yet. either you trust the process and those that your daughter is with or you don't. i don't need to tell you what happens if you don't. it's the way it is and even the coaches must submit their athlete and themselves to the mission of representing the USA in international competition. and whether it is on foreign soil or not. for some families, as well as coaches, it is too overwhelming. and i realize that i am speaking about the Elite level

 

[Deleted member D3987]

well, it won't let me edit. so: and the Elite level culminates from the process and from the very beginning.

if they don't learn and succeed somewhat from this process, they will have a difficult time when they do 4 more years of gymnastics in college.

most won't become Elite athletes. but all are exposed and develop within the same process. a process that they must learn from and apply to their own gymnastics process. it can only benefit them.

 

[my4buffaloes]

You make good points. I regret at our first gym that I never stayed and watched. I would have realized long before I did that it wasn't a good gym for us. That is one of the reasons why I think all parents should stay and watch sometimes. I watch a couple of days a week at drop off or pick up now. But it is NEVER because I do not trust the gym, the coaches or the process. I completely do now. It is funny that it is my 13 year old that wants me to stay. My 9 year old couldn't care less! My 13 year tells me everything, my 9 year old nothing.

I realize that an important part of my dd's lives is the coaches. The coaches are definitely doing their share to raise my kids. Another reason why it is important that parents watch and are involved to some extent - to make sure that things are going the way they want them to go. Our coaches are helping me raise good kids and I appreciate it more than they will ever know.

 

[Galadriel]

Not USA
Eldest Dd (now retired) competed half a dozen times internationally. I never went.
From age 13 - 14 went to very few home country meets - dd said she preferred me not to. She felt less stressed! Coach verified this approach. I felt guilty and gutted but it suited dd. I ferried her here and far there to national training sessions still.
Yay me. Felt like the thin end of the wedge at the time.
She had total ownership of training with coaches.
It worked. I trusted coaches obviously. (Luckily)

 

[Galadriel]

We did have a gym switch though due to emotional and personal situation. Coach at new gym was at old gym.

 

[gymratmom]

Oh wow, I needed this thread today! My lvl 4 has been placing middle-lower in her meets this season and even though I know from reading here not too place too much emphasis on scores, I have been struggling a little with questioning if this sport is worth the time, money, stress. My 8 year old eats, breathes and sleeps this sport though, so not much I can do about it. Thanks for the reminder to "enjoy" the journey! I also relate to the frustration of nor really knowing what is going on in the gym. We made a switch over the summer and it is the absolute best decision we could have made, but how I crave a little feedback once in awhile! But I am a good little gym parent! Don't complain, don't question the coaches and I am so afraid to talk to my daughter about the gym I have to fight from changing the subject when she brings it up! I have a friend who coaches a different team and used to coach my daughter so she gives me just enough feedback to keep me sane! In all seriousness, I am so glad that I DO completely trust the coaches, I know they will get her wherever her potential takes her so that I can just hang on for the ride!

 

[gymratmom]

Also, the original posters gym sounds a lot like ours. The girls have been working on a lot of uptraining this season which is the part my daughter thrives on. We have a lot of gyms around here that require multiple 36+ scores in a season to move levels. In my limited experience, it seems that our gym is more focused on the long term goals for the gymnast rather than success at compulsory levels and that is what we based our decision on when moving to the new gym.

 

[Rumjello]

There is no process. Your kid can either do what's required or they can't. Bad coaches, bad gyms. You are your daughter's greatest champion. If you feel that something isnt' right, then know that IT ISN"T.