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slkbeambabe07
a prep op with level 7 skills and giants? are you kidding me? prep op is for girls that can't progress in gymnastics. sounds like the gym you're at is kind of backwards. i'd go elsewhere in a heartbeat.
UGH!!! this is long a huge VENT and my DD is upset
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cher062
Yes I keep thinking that too. I'm trying to figure out what she is missing that the other girls have and she doesn't have. Or what she is doing that the others aren't doing. the only thing I can think of is well over the past year she went from "flat chested" to "oh yes there are boobs there". Do gyms tend to cut the blossoming girls from the teams for the more flat chested? She is the only one that has blossomed so far. No peiriod but definintly blossoming. (Yes I'm grasping at straws here trying to rack my brains for anything that may be a reason)
gymjourneymom
Proud Parent
I'd like to think we here at CB can be supportive of cher & her DD, without insulting other gymnasts who read these boards. Maybe your experience with Prep-op has not been a positive one. But I find your statement "prep op is for girls that can't progress in gymnastics" both untrue & insulting to a whole lot of talented & determine gymnasts
. As I stated in prior posts, Prep-op is handled differently from gym to gym & state to state. While it may not be your experience, in some areas Prep-op is quite challenging & competitive. And Prep-op girls in GOOD programs DO progress VERY much. I admit it doesn't sound like cher's DD is at a gym that has a progressive style prep-op program. So I agree that Prep-op at that gym doesn't sound like a good fit for her. But lets not insult ALL Prep-op gymnasts here please. Thank you!
Granny Smith
Proud Parent
cher - I totally feel for you. I am dealing with something similiar and know exactly how you feel. My dd has been at her currently gym for almost 10 yrs and it's the only one she knows (she's 13, turning 14 in Sept and will be in HS this coming yr). We do not have a HS school team so all she has is club.
She is training level 9, but due to an extremely aggressive skills list that will be required for her to compete 9 she might actually not be allowed to compete 9 at current gym. She's already done 2 yrs of 8, even though the only thing she was missing last yr for 9 was a "C" acro skill on floor. She was having an exceptional season this yr but then broke her foot and was out for 4 months, well not competing. She still was in the gym and now that she is healed, she is actually coming back fairly quick.
She doesn't want to leave the gym, I don't want to leave the gym but if she is not competing 9 this season we will look to another gym for a new home. I do feel that to some extent that if the coaches don't believe in your child, should you really stay? Will the not believing ever change, I don't know the answers but this is how I think. One thing I can tell you is that I am sick and tired of always feeling like I'm fighting a battle just so she is where she actually belongs (within the gym and I do not believe that I am a delusional parent who thinks her child should be 9, when she is only performing like a level 6.)
Our gym doesn't do pre-opt, but does the USAIGC program. This is an excellent program, but it does seem to rank 2nd in our gym and although not looked down on it is used as a threat for those who are not getting the skills at the rate the coaches want for USAG. So although the coaches talk to us parents like the programs are equal, they talk to the girls like it's a demotion. If you don't get this skill or that skill, you're going to IGC. To the USAG girls a coach suggestion that you go IGC is not good. Also, at our gym you can't do both programs, you either do IGC or USAG and once you go IGC you can not go back to USAG.
While the IGC girls are skilled and place very well within their own program, they simply can not compare to the USAG girls because they do not train the hrs that the USAG girls train and they do have a more relaxed atmosphere. If they don't want to do giants, they don't and they work around. This would be unacceptable in the USAG program.
Our gym is exactly like yours, but yours is actually a little more leniant. If you don't have giants you will not compete 7, you would do 6 again. They would not let you compete any events at 7.
Anywho, I just want to let you know that I am experiencing exactly what you are. What I am doing, is that I am staying with the gym and if at some point the coaches tell me that she will not do 9, it will be at that point that we will go elsewhere. I'm assuming that time will be sometime in the Fall. Shame is, I'll probably find out what's going on after I already purchased the new comp leo for the yr. I was really hoping I'd know before then, but sometimes things don't always work out the way we want!
She is training level 9, but due to an extremely aggressive skills list that will be required for her to compete 9 she might actually not be allowed to compete 9 at current gym. She's already done 2 yrs of 8, even though the only thing she was missing last yr for 9 was a "C" acro skill on floor. She was having an exceptional season this yr but then broke her foot and was out for 4 months, well not competing. She still was in the gym and now that she is healed, she is actually coming back fairly quick.
She doesn't want to leave the gym, I don't want to leave the gym but if she is not competing 9 this season we will look to another gym for a new home. I do feel that to some extent that if the coaches don't believe in your child, should you really stay? Will the not believing ever change, I don't know the answers but this is how I think. One thing I can tell you is that I am sick and tired of always feeling like I'm fighting a battle just so she is where she actually belongs (within the gym and I do not believe that I am a delusional parent who thinks her child should be 9, when she is only performing like a level 6.)
Our gym doesn't do pre-opt, but does the USAIGC program. This is an excellent program, but it does seem to rank 2nd in our gym and although not looked down on it is used as a threat for those who are not getting the skills at the rate the coaches want for USAG. So although the coaches talk to us parents like the programs are equal, they talk to the girls like it's a demotion. If you don't get this skill or that skill, you're going to IGC. To the USAG girls a coach suggestion that you go IGC is not good. Also, at our gym you can't do both programs, you either do IGC or USAG and once you go IGC you can not go back to USAG.
While the IGC girls are skilled and place very well within their own program, they simply can not compare to the USAG girls because they do not train the hrs that the USAG girls train and they do have a more relaxed atmosphere. If they don't want to do giants, they don't and they work around. This would be unacceptable in the USAG program.
Our gym is exactly like yours, but yours is actually a little more leniant. If you don't have giants you will not compete 7, you would do 6 again. They would not let you compete any events at 7.
Anywho, I just want to let you know that I am experiencing exactly what you are. What I am doing, is that I am staying with the gym and if at some point the coaches tell me that she will not do 9, it will be at that point that we will go elsewhere. I'm assuming that time will be sometime in the Fall. Shame is, I'll probably find out what's going on after I already purchased the new comp leo for the yr. I was really hoping I'd know before then, but sometimes things don't always work out the way we want!
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slkbeambabe07
Well our gym definitely does NOT do that, and wouldn't that be discrimination if they did? I'd hope that wasn't the case. Regardless, I'd move to a gym where your daughter deserves the recognition and working time she works hard for!
she'll ALWAYS make new friends. 
bookworm
Proud Parent
Granny Smith- is she ONLY missing the C acro skill on floor? I find it hard to believe that they couldn't work with her to get that... a lot of 8s going 9 tend to be held back because they are missing bar skills like the overshoot or pac salto but if she has that..
And to the poster who referenced PO as for the gymnasts that don't progress with their skills, I don't think she meant to be derogatory but that is how Prep Op is viewed in certain regions ...that the gymnast will go to PO while they work on certain skills they would absolutely need to have for USAG with the potential for returning to USAG when she gets the skills but still compete in PO ....with this original poster having the skills for USAG, I think that is why being suggested to go Prep Op is viewed as not progressing...I don't think any of the posters mean to suggest ill will...
And to the poster who referenced PO as for the gymnasts that don't progress with their skills, I don't think she meant to be derogatory but that is how Prep Op is viewed in certain regions ...that the gymnast will go to PO while they work on certain skills they would absolutely need to have for USAG with the potential for returning to USAG when she gets the skills but still compete in PO ....with this original poster having the skills for USAG, I think that is why being suggested to go Prep Op is viewed as not progressing...I don't think any of the posters mean to suggest ill will...
Granny Smith
Proud Parent
Yes, she is missing the C acro, but can do a C dance, but not good enough. Twisting has always been a problem for her, it is very slow coming, but it is not for a lack of effort. Our gym is a little (LOT) crazy about skill requirements,not much more I can say.
Tumblequeensmom
Proud Parent
Definitely sounds like it's time to move! Regardless of what they say, they have already pigeonholed her to one extent or the other. Not what she, or any other gymnast, needs!!! Good luck, let us know how the tryouts go.
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cher062
Yes that is what her dad and I are thinking too. I'm going in at 4:30 today and going to ask to speak to the owner without DD and coaches there first to see if there is even a need for them to be part of the meeting. If he tells me they have made the decision and this meeting is to explain why then I will tell him about my discussion with my DD and that we don't need to really go any further with the meeting. The I feel she is more than capable, give great effort and does have the skills they have asked her to have at this point and that I guess we now need to see what other options are available to her other than Prep Op at this gym. That yes we are going to need to look at other gyms as I don't want my DD to feel she had to "settle" for anything.
Prep Op in my area is viewed as the place where gymnasts not good enough for JO USAG program go or where Gymnast who are burnt out go. It is presented as a hugh step down to a program for those who can't hack a "real" team. It is used as a "threat" to the USAG team girls to get them to work harder and get a skill so DD sees the whole program as some place she doesn't want to go.
I am not defending your gym or taking sides but I feel like you need some more facts.
I coach a team not far from you, I coach prep opt and JO levels some of your post have really bothered me. They are far from the truth. Prep Opt in NH is a very reputable program where the girls work hard. Coaches in your state are working very hard at getting prep opt to be a respected program just at JO levels are. The girls in the program arent drop outs from JO who couldnt make it. Some could be very talented USAG gymnasts who have chosen Prep Opt because it is more relaxed, or they play other sports or they have had fears over certain skills. Maybe this is not a good fit for your daughter. But please stop bashing a program I have a feeling you dont really know a whole lot about. Did you even know that your gyms Advanced Team for Prep Opt won states this year? Sounds like they work hard and are pretty successful.
I coach a team not far from you, I coach prep opt and JO levels some of your post have really bothered me. They are far from the truth. Prep Opt in NH is a very reputable program where the girls work hard. Coaches in your state are working very hard at getting prep opt to be a respected program just at JO levels are. The girls in the program arent drop outs from JO who couldnt make it. Some could be very talented USAG gymnasts who have chosen Prep Opt because it is more relaxed, or they play other sports or they have had fears over certain skills. Maybe this is not a good fit for your daughter. But please stop bashing a program I have a feeling you dont really know a whole lot about. Did you even know that your gyms Advanced Team for Prep Opt won states this year? Sounds like they work hard and are pretty successful.
gymnut29, I think what the OP said was....that in her gym the coaches use the threat of being sent to prep op as a punishment for girls for not getting skills or working hard. They are threatened with it and therefore this makes prep op seem less desirable than USAG. The PO girls in her gym do less hours and have less pressure on them, the OP seems to say that this is not where her DD wants to be going and that she is still quite young and has the potential to go further in the USAG system.
I didn't read that the OP felt this, I read that the OP was upset that the gym was dealing with her gymmie this way, especially after them making PO seem blow USAG.
My kids do a PO type system here in Quebec, and I didn"t feel any slight at all. We love the lower hours, but I could see being told to go into this system when the gymmie has an eye on higher skills could be sould destroying.
I didn't read that the OP felt this, I read that the OP was upset that the gym was dealing with her gymmie this way, especially after them making PO seem blow USAG.
My kids do a PO type system here in Quebec, and I didn"t feel any slight at all. We love the lower hours, but I could see being told to go into this system when the gymmie has an eye on higher skills could be sould destroying.
Bog the orginal post, isnt what I was referring to and maybe it shouldnt just be targetted at the orginal poster but some of the other posts about prep opt not being good enough bothered me. This is the post I was directing my comment at:
Like I said it may not be a good fit for her DD and thats fine I just wanted to get some of the facts of the program across. That it is reputable and is competitive and the girls still do work very hard and gain new skills. We have a few girls who did prep op from day one and now are testing out of level 5 and 6 into level 7 for the next season. They learned 3 levels worth of skills while in prep opt.
Like I said it may not be a good fit for her DD and thats fine I just wanted to get some of the facts of the program across. That it is reputable and is competitive and the girls still do work very hard and gain new skills. We have a few girls who did prep op from day one and now are testing out of level 5 and 6 into level 7 for the next season. They learned 3 levels worth of skills while in prep opt.
bookworm
Proud Parent
Prep Op in my area is viewed as the place where gymnasts not good enough for JO USAG program go or where Gymnast who are burnt out go. It is presented as a hugh step down to a program for those who can't hack a "real" team. It is used as a "threat" to the USAG team girls to get them to work harder and get a skill so DD sees the whole program as some place she doesn't want to go.[/QUOTE]
And before anyone jumps on Cher for this comment, I agree that that is how PO is viewed in many regions...
As an aside, it's time for a new gym where continuing JO as a Level 7 will be the option for your daughter.
And before anyone jumps on Cher for this comment, I agree that that is how PO is viewed in many regions...
As an aside, it's time for a new gym where continuing JO as a Level 7 will be the option for your daughter.
gymjourneymom
Proud Parent
Thank you so much for presenting the facts as a coach from the area
! I'm unfamilar with cher's area so I didn't know what kind of program it is there. I know programs can vary greatly. It's really all about finding the right fit. Some gyms even have the Preps practice the same hours as JO. And they are progressing better than some JO girls. It's a personal choice of what works for that individual. I wish more gymnasts, coaches & parents understood the Prep-op programs in their area. Maybe then Prep-Op gymnasts would get the respect they deserve. I think some coaches do make it seem like a punishment & that is where the stigma is born. Coaches who use it as a threat...that's just wrong!!! Stop it!!! Good luck with your meeting cher. I support you & your DD & wish you both all the best. She deserves coaches that want to help her reach her goals, no matter what.
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ZJsMom
Proud Parent
I don't think labeling prep op is really necessary to the question. The issue here is that we have a girl who has already competed level 7, who wants to continue w/ level 7 and wants to practice 20 hours per week being moved against her will to a group that practices 6 hours a week. I for one don't agree with that and would take her to another gym if I were her mother.
Another thing that struck me in cher's posts was this statement:
If there are girls who still don't have giants after three years, I'd say something's wrong. Either the coaching is lacking or they're not doing enough conditioning. I obviously don't know a lot about the program, but from what cher's said, I'm not impressed. The idea that they can become a better program by weeding out girls they've already had on the JO team for years bothers me.
Another thing that struck me in cher's posts was this statement:
If there are girls who still don't have giants after three years, I'd say something's wrong. Either the coaching is lacking or they're not doing enough conditioning. I obviously don't know a lot about the program, but from what cher's said, I'm not impressed. The idea that they can become a better program by weeding out girls they've already had on the JO team for years bothers me.
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cher062
Well from a parent and gymnast perspective we definitly have a different view of what the truth is and what is being offered out there and I know in our gym at least how the prep op is seen from my point of view as well as other parents I know whom I've spoken to. It's good to hear that other gyms have a different perspective on that program and hopefully all the gyms will follow that view. Yes i did know they won the states this year and what I know about PrepOp is what my gym tells me and what I've seen at the gym and meets. and I'm not saying the PrepOp girls don't work hard but its not the same as the JO program.
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cher062
Until this year they didn't do giants they did an alternative move (not sure what the alternative move they did was) It was hoped they would get L8 moves this past season and change over to L8 but that didn't happen for them and they will be training to get L8 moves while competeing L7 again this year.
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Pickle's Mom
I have typed 5 different responses to this thread and keep deleting them because I have conflicting emotions about what I’ve read here. When I read posts like this, I always wonder “if the other side of this issue were posting here, what would they be saying?†For example, would this coach be posting here saying “how do you handle a parent who doesn’t understand what is best for their child?â€
Just this weekend, I was talking to our gym owner, which I don’t do very often (we just both happened to be outside waiting for someone at the same time). She told me that it is important to her that the gym never “crushes any child’s dreams and spiritâ€, even if she knows those dreams are unlikely. However, that doesn’t mean a child or parent gets to dictate what level a gymnast competes at. If a gymnast isn’t moving up, the coach makes every effort to phrase it like “this is where we think you will succeed…â€
My concern with you is that the gym just doesn’t seem to care at all about what your daughter is feeling, even if they may be right about your placement. My state doesn’t do Prep Op, so I can’t judge the truth about how it is perceived, but the important thing is that you and your daughter perceive that it is a step down and “crushing her dreamsâ€.
But I also think that maybe your perception of Prep Op isn’t quite valid. The gym is obviously putting resources into it. I would hesitate presenting it to the owner as “but this is the place you send gymnastics who don’t make the cut…â€
At the end of the day though, I think it is time for you to move on regardless of what the owner says in your meeting. Different gyms serve different purposes. I can see why a gym would want to focus nurturing the few stars (although honestly, is that even economically viable?) but that gym isn’t the place for your daughter. I can’t imagine there is anything that they can say at this point that would make you fully trust them again.
Just this weekend, I was talking to our gym owner, which I don’t do very often (we just both happened to be outside waiting for someone at the same time). She told me that it is important to her that the gym never “crushes any child’s dreams and spiritâ€, even if she knows those dreams are unlikely. However, that doesn’t mean a child or parent gets to dictate what level a gymnast competes at. If a gymnast isn’t moving up, the coach makes every effort to phrase it like “this is where we think you will succeed…â€
My concern with you is that the gym just doesn’t seem to care at all about what your daughter is feeling, even if they may be right about your placement. My state doesn’t do Prep Op, so I can’t judge the truth about how it is perceived, but the important thing is that you and your daughter perceive that it is a step down and “crushing her dreamsâ€.
But I also think that maybe your perception of Prep Op isn’t quite valid. The gym is obviously putting resources into it. I would hesitate presenting it to the owner as “but this is the place you send gymnastics who don’t make the cut…â€
At the end of the day though, I think it is time for you to move on regardless of what the owner says in your meeting. Different gyms serve different purposes. I can see why a gym would want to focus nurturing the few stars (although honestly, is that even economically viable?) but that gym isn’t the place for your daughter. I can’t imagine there is anything that they can say at this point that would make you fully trust them again.
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cher062
Meeting Results - Still shaking my head
WARNING THIS IS GOING TO BE EXCESSIVLY LONG - BE PREPARED!!
Ok we met with the owner and coaches last night. My Hubby and I asked that DD not be present at the meeting so we could be more honest about what ever the issues were. It was over an hour!! so this post may be long as both my Hubby an I came out of there still scratching our heads still wondering what the real reasons are.
I was the most contradictory meeting I have ever been at. One moment they are saying she's great and has the skills and the next they are saying she doesn't have the skills they just said she had. We spent the meeting saying "wait a min you just said she had that skill/ability or whatever now your saying she doesn't have that it can't be both ways - which is it?"
Well it started out with the Owner saying That my DD definitly has the skills needed for this level and the natural talent for doing this. She is dedicated and we can see she loves doing this but we feel she needs to move to PrepOp Advance and the coaches will explain why.
At that point the coaches said (and I can't believe they said this) That my DD is holding back the entire Optional team!! That its much eaiser as a coach if all the girls are workig at the pace in all areas. Ok they asked me at the last meeting to stay for some of the practices over this time period so I could see for myself where she was at. I did that and saw a girl working just as hard as any other girl. Having happy moments and sad moments Just like any other girl. They went on to say she was taking too long to go through the practice routines they set up for the night. i told them I had come and watche whole practices and I have never seen that at all and all I saw was her going through the paces just like everyother girl on the team. Then they said well it doesn't happen all the time and after we asked for a list of all the things that she was doing to "hold back the entire team" they said well it only happens when we are working layouts on the floor and BWO-BWO combo on Beam. These are teh 2 moves that do give her that fear factor but she can do them. These are the 2 moves that she had injured herself on this year. I asked them to explain exactly what was happenig. According to the coaches if the other girls are going through the practice for that move and taking 5 min she might be taking 10 min and that extra 5 min she is taking to deal with her fear issues is taking away practice time from the rest of the team and they are loosing out on that extra 5 min so the rest of the team isn't getting that extra practice and that keeps them from advancing. And after some questioning it seems its just for those 2 moves. Ok every girl has fear issues on something in the gym every girl has that move or piece of equipment that they need a few extra moments to take that deep breath, compose themselves so they can do the move. So I'm thinking Are you Kidding!! at which point my hubby told them I seriously doubt that the extra 5 or 10 min my DD is taking to consentrate is keeping the entire optional team from advancing - I can't believe that none of the other girls on the team never take an few extra moments when practicing. Coaches reply well yes the other girls do sometimes take more time then we want but we are talking about your DD right now. Again I'm thinking Are you kidding me?
Every issue they brought up went like this.
They talked about her emotions
In one breath saying she gets so excited when she gets a move you can see she loves it or when she doesn't get the move she can get frustraited with herself in the next breath they say she shows no emotions at all and they can't tell what she feels and in the next they say always seem "pitifully sad" and they feel so bad it seems like we are forcing her to be the . After some discussion again we are asking well which is it is she showing emotion or not is she excited and happy or "pitifully sad. No real answer to that they just moved on to her being afraid of the 2 moves we already discussed.
In one breath they are saying she let them know when she is afraid and communicates her needs and in the next they are saying when we ask her a question she is like a deer in the headlights and we don't know what she need or feels. Again after several contradicting examples hubby says look either she is communicating with you or she's not.
Then they say she seems shy and interaverted and doesn't seem to connect with teammates in the next they say she is social and gets along with all her teammates (she is friends with teammates outside of the gym doing b-day parties, sleepovers, shopping at mall and other typical fun friend stuff for her age) Anyone that know my DD know the terms SHY and Intraverted are two words that would never be used to describe her.
Ok I'm thinking let's say she is showing all of the things the coaches and owner are saying. Im thinking a girl who just turned 13yo 4 weeks ago - showing emotions like she's on a rollercoaster - One min happy one min sad one min quite the next loud one min shy one min outgoing- HMMM sounds like a teenage girl with hormones raging to me.
In one breath the owner says unless she has her giants (which by the way only the one L8 we have and three L7 including DD has, out of 14 girls on optionals) they can't really see her at this level. To which I say what are you talking About!!! she DOES have her giant and I think her bars look beautiful and are probably one of the best on the team maybe being her mom I'm not seeing something your seeing. I then point blank say to the coach I've seen her do giants you told me her bars are good. The coach says oh yes she does have her giants in fact her bars are "BREATHTAKING" and will get a great score at any meet. She has an outstanding bars routine and we have no concerns what so ever with that or her vault. The owner with a confused look on his face says in a questioning voice to the coach "Oh she does have her giants??!!"" The coach says Oh Yes and they really are beautiful there are times I have a hard time trying to stop her from wanting to do more. Owner then says oh well then on prep op she would have some really great skills to bring to the team. Once again hubby and I have that confused WHAT!!?? look on our face.
There were several other examples l'm not going to go into like this that had us saying WHAT!! or You have to be Kidding me!!
Then the coaches said they think we are forcing her to do something she doesn't want to do and she is overly stressed. I look right at the Owner at this point and say do you really believe that!! Now some back ground on the Owner and my family we have know the owner for 14 years we actually lived for 10 years one street away from them and the knew us through the neighborhood. The owner knows us and how we parent and how both our kids are. I say to the owner come on now you know us you know how we are and how we raise our kids - do you really believe that we are forcing our kids to do anything or putting extra stress on them ever? He turns to the coaches and says that really isn't who these parents are. I then say if they are seeing any stress at all then either they are putting it there or my DD is putting it on her self (could be that as she does tend to be a perfectionist.) I turn to the owner at this point I know you want to keep things business here but what is going on you know that some of what is being said isn't who we or our kids are some of the issues that the coaches are bring up you know would never apply to us. So what is really going on here?
He said your right your not like that and never ever have pressured your kids. At this point the Owner says we need to keep this on track and business like keep it about her gymnastics. WE have decided that it would be best for her to go to the prepop for the reasons we have discussed at least the month of July and if she can get her skills we MAY consider moving her back.
I've heard about enough at this point and do the recap with the group
So your saying she is kicked of the L7 team at this point and is not welcome to continue through the summer at that level once this session ends on the 25th and you will allow her to continue practicing until then even though she is holding back the whole teams progression with the L7 girls, you want her to go to PrepOp starting June 28th for at least a month and Maybe through August to get over the fear she has on those 2 moves, maintain AND show improvement on her current skill of which you say are saying she has her L7 skills along with 2 or 3 L8 skills and being on the verge of getting something called a "Sueke" any day now (Im sure Im not spelling this right) and if she does that in a program that meets 1/2 the time the current program meets you may consider her to come back to L7.
Owners Reply well we don't mean it to sound harsh like that but essentialy Yes. But PrepOp will free up some more time for her if she wants to do other activities and it will be less of a cost to you guys so you could use that extra money you save on more private time with the coaches.
My hubby then says well we will have to talk this over with our daughter and consider all the options she has. HC then says very quickly there are no options she can't do L7 its prepop or nothing. I just a quickly turn to her and yes defensively say back well that isn't true there are alot of other gyms out there with L7 programs. Maybe they aren't as competitive as yours but I'm sure there is a gym out there that would welcome a gymnast at L7 with the skills and drive she has.
The Owner then chimes in (worried look on his face) Oh you would consider leaving here?! I really would like it if you would consider staying and at least doing the PrepOp program for at least a month before you make that decision to check out other gyms. I told him we have been with you guys since you started this gym so many years ago, have been extreamly loyal to this gym and you and your wife are considered a friend to our family. We love you and your wife, our kids LOVE this gym. DD will be sad if she has to go to another gym but What we have to look at is it better for her to be forced to do a program she really doesn't want to do and her whole heart won't be in the program or is it better to go to another gym where the competitive level is a little less than here and she can still do the L7 she loves. We are going to talk to DD, present the choices to her with all the options that go with those choices and let her choose the program she wants to do.
Owner says well maybe DD has a view of the Prepop being a step down or something less than the JO program. I could talk to her tonight an explain the program so she doesn't feel that way. I said I don't want anyone here to mention a thing one way or the other without one of US being present. We want to know what is being said to her from this point on so no more "meetings" with just her. Her father and I will talk to her and feel her out as to what she really wants to do. Owner says well I really hope she will try the Prep op before considering moving to another gym. We thank every one and leave.
Hubby gets in the car and says Well I'm convinced. I ask convinced of what? I'm convinced that once she goes to PrepOp there is no way they will take her back to L7 and It's time to move her to a gym that will appreciate her and her skills even if she does do PrepOp in the end. I tell him well we need to talk to DD and see what her feelings are on this. I want her to be happy with the choice we and she is making.
Talked to DD later that night. She said she wants to go for L7 so mom I guess you need to start calling the other gyms. She then says if the other gyms won't take me as a L7 then I want to go back to our current gym and I'll give the PrepOp a try so I can still do gymnastics.
So I already have 2 "assesments" or what ever the gyms call them set up starting this Saturday With 2 more to arrange.
I told DD that when she goes to these gyms she need to evalulate them too. I told her to think about these questions.
do you like the gym it self (facility), do you like the coaches, are they nice, strict, mean,confusing, do you like the other team members, are they kind and inclusive or are they only focusing on themselves, How does the gym make you feel? And could you see yourself training there. She seemed to have a little spark in her voice and said Ok Mom I can do that. I told her in the end we are going to let her pick the gym she likes best and the only way she wouldn't go there if they wanted her would be because I didn't like something about it. She was just fine with that. No tears like on Friday no feelings of devistation etc. Maybe over the weekend she really though about her options and is now Ok with what is presented now to her. her only concern is she might be nervous at the new gym when trying out and I told her the coaches she will work with understand that and will take that into consideration when they evaluate.
So the saga will continue over the next 3 weeks as we look at other gyms.
I'll let you know what ends up as the final outcome.
WARNING THIS IS GOING TO BE EXCESSIVLY LONG - BE PREPARED!!
Ok we met with the owner and coaches last night. My Hubby and I asked that DD not be present at the meeting so we could be more honest about what ever the issues were. It was over an hour!! so this post may be long as both my Hubby an I came out of there still scratching our heads still wondering what the real reasons are.
I was the most contradictory meeting I have ever been at. One moment they are saying she's great and has the skills and the next they are saying she doesn't have the skills they just said she had. We spent the meeting saying "wait a min you just said she had that skill/ability or whatever now your saying she doesn't have that it can't be both ways - which is it?"
Well it started out with the Owner saying That my DD definitly has the skills needed for this level and the natural talent for doing this. She is dedicated and we can see she loves doing this but we feel she needs to move to PrepOp Advance and the coaches will explain why.
At that point the coaches said (and I can't believe they said this) That my DD is holding back the entire Optional team!! That its much eaiser as a coach if all the girls are workig at the pace in all areas. Ok they asked me at the last meeting to stay for some of the practices over this time period so I could see for myself where she was at. I did that and saw a girl working just as hard as any other girl. Having happy moments and sad moments Just like any other girl. They went on to say she was taking too long to go through the practice routines they set up for the night. i told them I had come and watche whole practices and I have never seen that at all and all I saw was her going through the paces just like everyother girl on the team. Then they said well it doesn't happen all the time and after we asked for a list of all the things that she was doing to "hold back the entire team" they said well it only happens when we are working layouts on the floor and BWO-BWO combo on Beam. These are teh 2 moves that do give her that fear factor but she can do them. These are the 2 moves that she had injured herself on this year. I asked them to explain exactly what was happenig. According to the coaches if the other girls are going through the practice for that move and taking 5 min she might be taking 10 min and that extra 5 min she is taking to deal with her fear issues is taking away practice time from the rest of the team and they are loosing out on that extra 5 min so the rest of the team isn't getting that extra practice and that keeps them from advancing. And after some questioning it seems its just for those 2 moves. Ok every girl has fear issues on something in the gym every girl has that move or piece of equipment that they need a few extra moments to take that deep breath, compose themselves so they can do the move. So I'm thinking Are you Kidding!! at which point my hubby told them I seriously doubt that the extra 5 or 10 min my DD is taking to consentrate is keeping the entire optional team from advancing - I can't believe that none of the other girls on the team never take an few extra moments when practicing. Coaches reply well yes the other girls do sometimes take more time then we want but we are talking about your DD right now. Again I'm thinking Are you kidding me?
Every issue they brought up went like this.
They talked about her emotions
In one breath saying she gets so excited when she gets a move you can see she loves it or when she doesn't get the move she can get frustraited with herself in the next breath they say she shows no emotions at all and they can't tell what she feels and in the next they say always seem "pitifully sad" and they feel so bad it seems like we are forcing her to be the . After some discussion again we are asking well which is it is she showing emotion or not is she excited and happy or "pitifully sad. No real answer to that they just moved on to her being afraid of the 2 moves we already discussed.
In one breath they are saying she let them know when she is afraid and communicates her needs and in the next they are saying when we ask her a question she is like a deer in the headlights and we don't know what she need or feels. Again after several contradicting examples hubby says look either she is communicating with you or she's not.
Then they say she seems shy and interaverted and doesn't seem to connect with teammates in the next they say she is social and gets along with all her teammates (she is friends with teammates outside of the gym doing b-day parties, sleepovers, shopping at mall and other typical fun friend stuff for her age) Anyone that know my DD know the terms SHY and Intraverted are two words that would never be used to describe her.
Ok I'm thinking let's say she is showing all of the things the coaches and owner are saying. Im thinking a girl who just turned 13yo 4 weeks ago - showing emotions like she's on a rollercoaster - One min happy one min sad one min quite the next loud one min shy one min outgoing- HMMM sounds like a teenage girl with hormones raging to me.
In one breath the owner says unless she has her giants (which by the way only the one L8 we have and three L7 including DD has, out of 14 girls on optionals) they can't really see her at this level. To which I say what are you talking About!!! she DOES have her giant and I think her bars look beautiful and are probably one of the best on the team maybe being her mom I'm not seeing something your seeing. I then point blank say to the coach I've seen her do giants you told me her bars are good. The coach says oh yes she does have her giants in fact her bars are "BREATHTAKING" and will get a great score at any meet. She has an outstanding bars routine and we have no concerns what so ever with that or her vault. The owner with a confused look on his face says in a questioning voice to the coach "Oh she does have her giants??!!"" The coach says Oh Yes and they really are beautiful there are times I have a hard time trying to stop her from wanting to do more. Owner then says oh well then on prep op she would have some really great skills to bring to the team. Once again hubby and I have that confused WHAT!!?? look on our face.
There were several other examples l'm not going to go into like this that had us saying WHAT!! or You have to be Kidding me!!
Then the coaches said they think we are forcing her to do something she doesn't want to do and she is overly stressed. I look right at the Owner at this point and say do you really believe that!! Now some back ground on the Owner and my family we have know the owner for 14 years we actually lived for 10 years one street away from them and the knew us through the neighborhood. The owner knows us and how we parent and how both our kids are. I say to the owner come on now you know us you know how we are and how we raise our kids - do you really believe that we are forcing our kids to do anything or putting extra stress on them ever? He turns to the coaches and says that really isn't who these parents are. I then say if they are seeing any stress at all then either they are putting it there or my DD is putting it on her self (could be that as she does tend to be a perfectionist.) I turn to the owner at this point I know you want to keep things business here but what is going on you know that some of what is being said isn't who we or our kids are some of the issues that the coaches are bring up you know would never apply to us. So what is really going on here?
He said your right your not like that and never ever have pressured your kids. At this point the Owner says we need to keep this on track and business like keep it about her gymnastics. WE have decided that it would be best for her to go to the prepop for the reasons we have discussed at least the month of July and if she can get her skills we MAY consider moving her back.
I've heard about enough at this point and do the recap with the group
So your saying she is kicked of the L7 team at this point and is not welcome to continue through the summer at that level once this session ends on the 25th and you will allow her to continue practicing until then even though she is holding back the whole teams progression with the L7 girls, you want her to go to PrepOp starting June 28th for at least a month and Maybe through August to get over the fear she has on those 2 moves, maintain AND show improvement on her current skill of which you say are saying she has her L7 skills along with 2 or 3 L8 skills and being on the verge of getting something called a "Sueke" any day now (Im sure Im not spelling this right) and if she does that in a program that meets 1/2 the time the current program meets you may consider her to come back to L7.
Owners Reply well we don't mean it to sound harsh like that but essentialy Yes. But PrepOp will free up some more time for her if she wants to do other activities and it will be less of a cost to you guys so you could use that extra money you save on more private time with the coaches.
My hubby then says well we will have to talk this over with our daughter and consider all the options she has. HC then says very quickly there are no options she can't do L7 its prepop or nothing. I just a quickly turn to her and yes defensively say back well that isn't true there are alot of other gyms out there with L7 programs. Maybe they aren't as competitive as yours but I'm sure there is a gym out there that would welcome a gymnast at L7 with the skills and drive she has.
The Owner then chimes in (worried look on his face) Oh you would consider leaving here?! I really would like it if you would consider staying and at least doing the PrepOp program for at least a month before you make that decision to check out other gyms. I told him we have been with you guys since you started this gym so many years ago, have been extreamly loyal to this gym and you and your wife are considered a friend to our family. We love you and your wife, our kids LOVE this gym. DD will be sad if she has to go to another gym but What we have to look at is it better for her to be forced to do a program she really doesn't want to do and her whole heart won't be in the program or is it better to go to another gym where the competitive level is a little less than here and she can still do the L7 she loves. We are going to talk to DD, present the choices to her with all the options that go with those choices and let her choose the program she wants to do.
Owner says well maybe DD has a view of the Prepop being a step down or something less than the JO program. I could talk to her tonight an explain the program so she doesn't feel that way. I said I don't want anyone here to mention a thing one way or the other without one of US being present. We want to know what is being said to her from this point on so no more "meetings" with just her. Her father and I will talk to her and feel her out as to what she really wants to do. Owner says well I really hope she will try the Prep op before considering moving to another gym. We thank every one and leave.
Hubby gets in the car and says Well I'm convinced. I ask convinced of what? I'm convinced that once she goes to PrepOp there is no way they will take her back to L7 and It's time to move her to a gym that will appreciate her and her skills even if she does do PrepOp in the end. I tell him well we need to talk to DD and see what her feelings are on this. I want her to be happy with the choice we and she is making.
Talked to DD later that night. She said she wants to go for L7 so mom I guess you need to start calling the other gyms. She then says if the other gyms won't take me as a L7 then I want to go back to our current gym and I'll give the PrepOp a try so I can still do gymnastics.
So I already have 2 "assesments" or what ever the gyms call them set up starting this Saturday With 2 more to arrange.
I told DD that when she goes to these gyms she need to evalulate them too. I told her to think about these questions.
do you like the gym it self (facility), do you like the coaches, are they nice, strict, mean,confusing, do you like the other team members, are they kind and inclusive or are they only focusing on themselves, How does the gym make you feel? And could you see yourself training there. She seemed to have a little spark in her voice and said Ok Mom I can do that. I told her in the end we are going to let her pick the gym she likes best and the only way she wouldn't go there if they wanted her would be because I didn't like something about it. She was just fine with that. No tears like on Friday no feelings of devistation etc. Maybe over the weekend she really though about her options and is now Ok with what is presented now to her. her only concern is she might be nervous at the new gym when trying out and I told her the coaches she will work with understand that and will take that into consideration when they evaluate.
So the saga will continue over the next 3 weeks as we look at other gyms.
I'll let you know what ends up as the final outcome.
It sounds like they don't just want her on the team for whatever reason. So I think your judgement is correct that they are not planning on moving her back because moving to prep op for one month does not make sense. It would be distracting to all the coaches to move kids in and out of a program like that. Personally I think prep op is a great program, especially for kids with fear issues to be ABLE to progress and compete on their other events what they can without being so constrained by other requirements. I feel some of the comments in this thread are inaccurate about the spirit of the program in that regard. We have looked into the program (it's newish in our state) specifically for that reason, because we feel we have kids who have the ability to progress in competitive gymnastics, just not through the traditional path on all four events.
However moving a kid in and out of a program for a month is obviously not helpful or the way it should be used, in my opinion. That is a more of a distraction than anything.
Realistically you aren't even asking for your child to be moved to a new level. I think once she sees another gym she won't be so scared about the possibility. I don't think any little mistakes are going to make the new gyms evaluate her differently, they will just look at overall ability and strength, etc. To be honest, and I'd rarely make a statement like this, but a kid has straight leg and relatively straight body giants, virtually any gym will put them on L7. I can't really see a reason, as a strictly JO gym, to keep a middle schooler with giants out of L7. Even if she has problems with the other events those should be workable in most cases. My main concern with fear issues is when a kid will never do something, not when they take 5 more minutes to warm up or complete an assignment. That could cause a problem in meet warm up but there are several months to improve that.
However moving a kid in and out of a program for a month is obviously not helpful or the way it should be used, in my opinion. That is a more of a distraction than anything.
Realistically you aren't even asking for your child to be moved to a new level. I think once she sees another gym she won't be so scared about the possibility. I don't think any little mistakes are going to make the new gyms evaluate her differently, they will just look at overall ability and strength, etc. To be honest, and I'd rarely make a statement like this, but a kid has straight leg and relatively straight body giants, virtually any gym will put them on L7. I can't really see a reason, as a strictly JO gym, to keep a middle schooler with giants out of L7. Even if she has problems with the other events those should be workable in most cases. My main concern with fear issues is when a kid will never do something, not when they take 5 more minutes to warm up or complete an assignment. That could cause a problem in meet warm up but there are several months to improve that.
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