Parents Use of time outs as punishment

[Muddlethru]

It would be great if they spotted her but they do not believe in spotting on beam or floor. They will stand near the beam but never spot. I guess the philosophy is if they cant do it on their own, they shouldnt be spotted. Another girl that day was placed in a time out for not doing fly-aways.

I agree with maybe spotting. But I've also seen that backfire. Sometimes spotting only prolongs the process or puts a band aide on it. The problem never goes away.

I think doing additional conditioning can be perceived either as punishment or a motivation to try the skill to avoid the extra conditioning, I am not opposed to that unless it is excessive. I'd rather they be doing something than just standing around thinking about their fears.

Our coach cares about his gymnasts, but he imposes extra conditioning and time outs and has sent them home when the gymnast refuses to do a skill after having exhausted all his other options.

Fear is indeed real and at home we treat it in a loving and nurturing manner. At the gym, I believe it does not work as well. You can hold a gymnast's hands for only so long. Fear is debilitating. The only way to conquer fear is to face it head on.

 

[mommyof1]

They don't want the girls to wait-wait-wait before they'll attempt a skill because they believe that can induce fears, so if they see that they just step back and build up again.

This sounds like the Yoda approach: "Try not. Do or do not. There is no try."

 

[Deleted member D3987]

yikes! stooooooooooooooopid. the original poster's coach will not impart any change in this child because most fears are vestibular and occur over the course development in a gymnast's process.

now then, a kid runs in front of another while doing gymnastics? yep...time out is good.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Nobody wants gymnasts to be
Punished for fear, I get that. I'm not proud of what I did but it was one time in 7 years. But do you really want to wait months for a gymnast to do a back walkover on beam? Is it better to be so patient the gymnast takes herself out of contention at meets? This is a sport. My dd was totally capable of doing her skill, she was just afraid of it. I even took her to a sports psychologist. But I also knew she would be even more devastated of she did not compete the skill.

completely illogical. or circular logic, if you will.

 

[level9mom]

Why, thanks dunno!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

and as i have stated before, gymnastics is an inherently dysfuntional sport. all the anecdotes and opinions won't work for most and may work for a limited time with others, but not permanently.

example: a child performs a double double on floor. this same child is afraid to do a flip flop layout on beam or a Jaeger on bars.

no way you can understand this. as a parent or a coach. a double double is far more difficult, complicated and scary for most kids. and the other 2 skills are performed by kids all the time with no thought of fear or consequence.

understand? dysfunctional.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Why, thanks dunno!

and i was not being snarky. your post is anecdotal with no permanency for the athlete. because there can't be for most kids. please read my example.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

This sounds like the Yoda approach: "Try not. Do or do not. There is no try."

or what us coaches endearingly and humorously refer to as "quitters try". LOL. you have to have done gymnastics to fully comprehend this one. LOL.

 

[level9mom]

Dunno, I understand that I do not understand. But how should we, as parents, deal with fear? The child returns from practice crying and depressed for days or even weeks. I can't stand to see her this distressed. At what point do we say "enough!" I don't think I could go through that kind of drama again.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Dunno, I understand that I do not understand. But how should we, as parents, deal with fear? The child returns from practice crying and depressed for days or even weeks. I can't stand to see her this distressed. At what point do we say "enough!" I don't think I could go through that kind of drama again.

I do think we're being a bit harsh on you, and I apologize. I'm not a parent (and I have no intention of ever being one), and I lack any frame of reference or comprehension of what these sorts of struggles are like from the perspective of a parent. All I can go by is my perspective as a coach and former gymnast.

In my opinion, the best thing for a parent to do to help their kid get through fear at the gym is nothing at all.

The drive to succeed, the drive to improve, the drive to overcome challenges; it's best when all of that comes from the kid. It's less than ideal for it to come from the coach, but it can work in a pinch. But it should NOT come from the parents. In my experience, the kids that do the best, that stick with it the longest, that continue to love the sport and the gym, tend to have parents who are unconditionally supportive, and do not put any sort of pressure on their kids to succeed. Kids should not feel pressure from their parents in gymnastics. They should not feel like they have to live up to their parents expectations. They should NEVER be made to feel like their parents are disappointed in their efforts and accomplishments as gymnasts.

Sometimes they need to be pushed, yes. This push should come from the coaches, and from the gymnasts themselves.

Far more often though, the solution is to take a step back, take the pressure off, and give the kid some space to stop stressing about the skill. Often, simply saying to a kid "it's ok, you can do the skill whenever you feel ready" will make a HUGE difference, because then you're giving ownership of the skill back to the kid.

If a gymnast does a skill only because she was bullied and frightened into it, what has she accomplished? What does she have to be proud of? She hasn't conquered her fear. She hasn't found within herself the strength to overcome the challenge. She hasn't really gotten anything worthwhile out of the process.


So to answer your question, my opinion (as somebody who has been doing coaching for 10 years and doing gymnastics for 20) is that the best thing for you to do when your daughter faces this sort of challenge is to do absolutely nothing. Ask her about her other skills, her other events, talk to her about the stuff she wants to talk about. Let her focus on what she's proud of. If she wants to talk to you about her fears, she will, but it's better if she brings it up, not you.

But again, my expertise is in coaching, not in parenting, so my perspective is limited.


EDIT: I'll give an example. One of my own girls has been struggling with fear issues on her flyaway, and her first level 5 meet is this weekend. She loves bars, and is absolutely beautiful to watch when she's swinging, and when she does her flyaway it is a thing of beauty. But when you say the word "flyaway," her usual smile vanishes, and suddenly she's not having fun anymore. Suddenly she's afraid, terrified even, to go to an event which is otherwise her best event. This is how bars practice has generally gone for the last week or two.
Last night, I told her that I'm not going to have her compete the flyaway this weekend. She will do her routine, then simply drop off the bar in the back swing, stick, finish, and salute. She'll take the deduction, and it will probably cost her any chance of placing on the event, and this is the one event on which she would have been most likely to win on.
But after I told her this, she was not only visibly more relaxed and more eager to work on bars, but she even came to me and asked if she could take a few extra turns to work flyaway drills with a spot.

This weekend, she will not be competing her flyaway. She will take a massive deduction for it.

I don't care. When we walk out of that meet, I will pat her on the back and tell her -- with complete sincerity -- that I'm proud of her.

Because now, that flyaway is no longer the skill I want her to get; it's the skill SHE wants her to get. She'll work at it until she's ready, and then she'll get it, and it will be a major accomplishment for her.
In the process, she'll learn something far more important than how to flip off a bar. She will learn that when faced with a seemingly insurmountable challenge, all she has to do is be patient and take it one step at a time. She will learn patience and perseverance. Most importantly, she will learn to find within herself the inner strength to conquer her own fears. If I can give her all that, and all it costs is one score on one event at one meet, then I think I'm getting a pretty good deal on that trade.

 

[wandrewsjr]

or what us coaches endearingly and humorously refer to as "quitters try". LOL. you have to have done gymnastics to fully comprehend this one. LOL.

LOL, dunno. When you mentioned the infamous TV documentary in the watching practice thread this was the first thing that popped into my head. "What kind of try was that? Is there such a thing as a quitter's try?"

 

[Deleted member D3987]

I do think we're being a bit harsh on you, and I apologize. I'm not a parent (and I have no intention of ever being one), and I lack any frame of reference or comprehension of what these sorts of struggles are like from the perspective of a parent. All I can go by is my perspective as a coach and former gymnast.

In my opinion, the best thing for a parent to do to help their kid get through fear at the gym is nothing at all.

The drive to succeed, the drive to improve, the drive to overcome challenges; it's best when all of that comes from the kid. It's less than ideal for it to come from the coach, but it can work in a pinch. But it should NOT come from the parents. In my experience, the kids that do the best, that stick with it the longest, that continue to love the sport and the gym, tend to have parents who are unconditionally supportive, and do not put any sort of pressure on their kids to succeed. Kids should not feel pressure from their parents in gymnastics. They should not feel like they have to live up to their parents expectations. They should NEVER be made to feel like their parents are disappointed in their efforts and accomplishments as gymnasts.

Sometimes they need to be pushed, yes. This push should come from the coaches, and from the gymnasts themselves.

Far more often though, the solution is to take a step back, take the pressure off, and give the kid some space to stop stressing about the skill. Often, simply saying to a kid "it's ok, you can do the skill whenever you feel ready" will make a HUGE difference, because then you're giving ownership of the skill back to the kid.

If a gymnast does a skill only because she was bullied and frightened into it, what has she accomplished? What does she have to be proud of? She hasn't conquered her fear. She hasn't found within herself the strength to overcome the challenge. She hasn't really gotten anything worthwhile out of the process.


So to answer your question, my opinion (as somebody who has been doing coaching for 10 years and doing gymnastics for 20) is that the best thing for you to do when your daughter faces this sort of challenge is to do absolutely nothing. Ask her about her other skills, her other events, talk to her about the stuff she wants to talk about. Let her focus on what she's proud of. If she wants to talk to you about her fears, she will, but it's better if she brings it up, not you.

But again, my expertise is in coaching, not in parenting, so my perspective is limited.


EDIT: I'll give an example. One of my own girls has been struggling with fear issues on her flyaway, and her first level 5 meet is this weekend. She loves bars, and is absolutely beautiful to watch when she's swinging, and when she does her flyaway it is a thing of beauty. But when you say the word "flyaway," her usual smile vanishes, and suddenly she's not having fun anymore. Suddenly she's afraid, terrified even, to go to an event which is otherwise her best event. This is how bars practice has generally gone for the last week or two.
Last night, I told her that I'm not going to have her compete the flyaway this weekend. She will do her routine, then simply drop off the bar in the back swing, stick, finish, and salute. She'll take the deduction, and it will probably cost her any chance of placing on the event, and this is the one event on which she would have been most likely to win on.
But after I told her this, she was not only visibly more relaxed and more eager to work on bars, but she even came to me and asked if she could take a few extra turns to work flyaway drills with a spot.

This weekend, she will not be competing her flyaway. She will take a massive deduction for it.

I don't care. When we walk out of that meet, I will pat her on the back and tell her -- with complete sincerity -- that I'm proud of her.

Because now, that flyaway is no longer the skill I want her to get; it's the skill SHE wants her to get. She'll work at it until she's ready, and then she'll get it, and it will be a major accomplishment for her.
In the process, she'll learn something far more important than how to flip off a bar. She will learn that when faced with a seemingly insurmountable challenge, all she has to do is be patient and take it one step at a time. She will learn patience and perseverance. Most importantly, she will learn to find within herself the inner strength to conquer her own fears. If I can give her all that, and all it costs is one score on one event at one meet, then I think I'm getting a pretty good deal on that trade.

spot on!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Dunno, I understand that I do not understand. But how should we, as parents, deal with fear? The child returns from practice crying and depressed for days or even weeks. I can't stand to see her this distressed. At what point do we say "enough!" I don't think I could go through that kind of drama again.

read Geoff's reply. i agree with him 100%.

 

[ladybird]

Wish I could "like" Geoffrey's reply a million times. This makes so much sense!

 

[Ekat]

If a gymnast does a skill only because she was bullied and frightened into it, what has she accomplished? What does she have to be proud of? She hasn't conquered her fear. She hasn't found within herself the strength to overcome the challenge. She hasn't really gotten anything worthwhile out of the process.

Love it

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Yes adding anxiety to anxiety equals shut down. And parents can easily add to this Even if unintentional . It is also important to note that excessive parental viewing can also contribute to fear issues, and ignite them, But that's another topic which is like beating a dead horse. That being said, , What one child can handle may be another's limit