Parents Coaching PD and training?

[GymDad9.9]

The issue isn't whether rec coaches should receive some training, it is whether the type of training they receive should be run by the state and legally mandated by the state. Rec coaches here receive their training in house, shadowing, training days, being monitored by more experienced coaches.

Yes, parents do care. But they have the freedom here(and the responsibility) to evaluate for themselves what program to choose and the risks they will take with their children. This is usually done by word of mouth(reputation) and watching the program.

I have to state again, the sheer volume of kids we have here doing gymnastics. 5 million plus, with only about 100,000(2 percent) of those doing team level gymnastics. The rec kids are there to have some fun, burn off some energy, learn how to do rolls and cartwheels. Finding a coach with the personality to engage these kids is most important. The more experienced coaches on staff can then teach them how to teach the skills.

The background check issue is something that varies on the state and local level.(don't know enough about all states laws to say). Background checks are required for many professions - teachers, health care workers, government employees. And many more businesses do them voluntarily on their own to protect themselves and their customers. All sports leagues in my area do them(even little league and pee wee soccer that is parent volunteer coached). they don't do it because the state mandates it, they do it because the parents want it. The consumer has decided it is important to them so it gets done(the state didn't have to decide for them it was important).

I know we aren't supposed to discuss politics here but I am not sure how to address this issue without it. You say "don't the parents care?!". Of course they care. There are just more issues here that are decided on the consumer demand level than the state mandate level. Just because we rely on a private business to do its own training program doesn't mean we don't care.

I think it gets a little problematic for parents if they have kids in gyms where parents can't sit and watch for themselves the quality of care and coaching. That would also tend to muddy any word of mouth as well. My gym encourages parents to watch their children but I have seen plenty here on this board to suggest that is not always the case.

 

[wandrewsjr]

I think it gets a little problematic for parents if they have kids in gyms where parents can't sit and watch for themselves the quality of care and coaching. That would also tend to muddy any word of mouth as well. My gym encourages parents to watch their children but I have seen plenty here on this board to suggest that is not always the case.

Every gym I have ever been involved with is completely fine with(and even encouraged) rec parents to watch.

 

[GymDad9.9]

Every gym I have ever been involved with is completely fine with(and even encouraged) rec parents to watch.

Perhaps I have misunderstood that rec parents can watch but team parents can't. Don't know.

 

[wandrewsjr]

Perhaps I have misunderstood that rec parents can watch but team parents can't. Don't know.

That is usually the case. At many gyms I've seen one of the reasons (among many I know been discussed at length before not trying to get into THAT) team parents are asked not to stay is to make sure there is viewing room for the rec parents.

 

[Iwannabemargo]

I would just add that the British training is not State mandated ( as in UK government) but governing body mandated, i.e British Gymnastics. Clubs must register with BG to compete in BG competitions and they mandate the level of training required for the coaches at that level.

The Background check is State Mandated, and required for anyone who has contact on a regular basis with children or vulnerable adults.

I understand your point about informed parenting, but really, having read many of the questions posted by new parents here, the minutiae of coach training is probably not foremost in their mind, and, if they have no prior knowledge of gymnastics they have no idea on good safe practice. For us here is handy to see the coaches qualifications displayed. We also have a level system for coaches which is comparable across all sports, from 1-5, so a rec coach will be a level 1 and a national coach will be a level 5.

 

[wandrewsjr]

I would just add that the British training is not State mandated ( as in UK government) but governing body mandated, i.e British Gymnastics. Clubs must register with BG to compete in BG competitions and they mandate the level of training required for the coaches at that level.

The Background check is State Mandated, and required for anyone who has contact on a regular basis with children or vulnerable adults.

I understand your point about informed parenting, but really, having read many of the questions posted by new parents here, the minutiae of coach training is probably not foremost in their mind, and, if they have no prior knowledge of gymnastics they have no idea on good safe practice. For us here is handy to see the coaches qualifications displayed. We also have a level system for coaches which is comparable across all sports, from 1-5, so a rec coach will be a level 1 and a national coach will be a level 5.

Yes our governing body(USAG) regulates competitive gymnastics clubs and their coaches like yours does. So how does that work for rec level coaches? The rec kids and coaches aren't entering competitions, so how does the governing body regulate them?

 

[wandrewsjr]

I would just add that the British training is not State mandated ( as in UK government) but governing body mandated, i.e British Gymnastics. Clubs must register with BG to compete in BG competitions and they mandate the level of training required for the coaches at that level.

The Background check is State Mandated, and required for anyone who has contact on a regular basis with children or vulnerable adults.

I understand your point about informed parenting, but really, having read many of the questions posted by new parents here, the minutiae of coach training is probably not foremost in their mind, and, if they have no prior knowledge of gymnastics they have no idea on good safe practice. For us here is handy to see the coaches qualifications displayed. We also have a level system for coaches which is comparable across all sports, from 1-5, so a rec coach will be a level 1 and a national coach will be a level 5.

Sorry thought of another question. We also have gyms here that are purely recreational. Never enter competitions, never teach what would be considered team level gymnastics. Do you have those and if so how does the national governing body regulate those?

 

[wandrewsjr]

Very interesting to hear what's required, versus what gyms try to do or their policies. In figure skating, we're required to join various organizations, take annual training based on the levels of skating we're teaching, and whether we're doing competitions with our students. We also do a background check. The rinks do not pay for this and I estimate I pay about $600 a year for all of it. And 99% of coaches were former skaters. Thinking about what I go through begged the question in me whether gymnastics had a similar structure for coaching. And seeing posts about the varying coaching styles and experiences also made me wonder. Honestly, in my opinion, it sounds like gymnastics could catch up and implement some generalized coaching training based the level of gymnastics the person is coaching. Despite whether a young coach remains at a gym or not, these credentials would follow them to another gym.

I was wondering how other sports worked. I thought maybe figure skating was like gymnastics, the coaches who take skaters to competitions would be required to get certification from the national governing body of the sport. So in firgure skating, every instructor, at every ice rink in the nation, even those teaching the beginning pee-wee classes where they skate around with the bucket, is required to go through all of this certification? How does the national governing body keep track of all the coaches and classes at all the ice rinks?

 

[bogwoppit]

Sorry thought of another question. We also have gyms here that are purely recreational. Never enter competitions, never teach what would be considered team level gymnastics. Do you have those and if so how does the national governing body regulate those?

They still have to have our L1 training and background checks. To coach at any level you must be qualified. To coach rec through about your L3 you need L1 certification, each level must be completed until you do L4 to coach elite gymnasts. You may not work as a coach in any gym without it. This has no relevance to coaching at meets.

Our system did undergo some changes recently, I need to check them out.

 

[wandrewsjr]

They still have to have our L1 training and background checks. To coach at any level you must be qualified. To coach rec through about your L3 you need L1 certification, each level must be completed until you do L4 to coach elite gymnasts. You may not work as a coach in any gym without it. This has no relevance to coaching at meets.

Our system did undergo some changes recently, I need to check them out.

So how does the governing body enforce whether gyms have all their recreational employees go through this certification? Here all coaches attending meets must go through certification, gymnasts aren't allowed to be registered for a competition unless their coach has gone through the USAG certification and that can be verified with USAG. But how do they enforce this with recreational coaches?

 

[Iwannabemargo]

with our system our rec gymnasts ( so your levels 1-4) have competitions they can enter locally, they also have a badge proficiency award scheme, both of which are sanctioned through BG.

As for ensuring all coaches are qualified, as a condition of their insurance the club can only employ qualified coaches, and all gymnasts are registered with BG as well. If there was one unregistered coach or gymnast and there was an accident, the club would be uninsured.

 

[wandrewsjr]

with our system our rec gymnasts ( so your levels 1-4) have competitions they can enter locally, they also have a badge proficiency award scheme, both of which are sanctioned through BG.

As for ensuring all coaches are qualified, as a condition of their insurance the club can only employ qualified coaches, and all gymnasts are registered with BG as well. If there was one unregistered coach or gymnast and there was an accident, the club would be uninsured.

That makes sense, having all recreational gymnasts register would be a way to keep track. Our insurance here is handled privately, is yours run through BG? Boy I am sure USAG would salivate at the thought of 5 million recreational gymnasts having to pay for a membership!

Recreational gymnastics here does not generally have competitions. They may do in house exhibitions which are more like "shows". Rec classes are often more like a physical education class than a prelude to competitive gymnastics.

 

[wandrewsjr]

I should clarify, private gyms handle their facilities insurance privately. The yearly membership fee that competitive gymnasts pay to USAG part of that goes to cover insurance for them at USAG sanctioned competitions(if they were to get injured there). Recreational gymnastics, and all gymnastics done at the gym, falls under the clubs private insurance policy.

 

[bogwoppit]

So how does the governing body enforce whether gyms have all their recreational employees go through this certification? Here all coaches attending meets must go through certification, gymnasts aren't allowed to be registered for a competition unless their coach has gone through the USAG certification and that can be verified with USAG. But how do they enforce this with recreational coaches?

Insurance would be void if they allowed non qualified coaches to coach. For injuries there are reports that must be filled out and signed, report goes to parent and to the governing body.

Even rec kids have to be registered with the federation.

 

[wandrewsjr]

Insurance would be void if they allowed non qualified coaches to coach. For injuries there are reports that must be filled out and signed, report goes to parent and to the governing body.

Even rec kids have to be registered with the federation.

Interesting. So all the insurance at gyms is run through the federation? Here the only insurance handled by USAG is the insurance for those at sanctioned USAG competitions(only competitive gymnasts have to register and part of their USAG reg fee goes to this insurance). Recreational gymnasts(and competitive gymnasts injured at practice) would go through a gyms private insurance company, reports would be filled out and go to them. Gyms pay for insurance based on the numbers they have in their program. Recreational and competitive gymnatics are essentionally two different systems. Not all gyms are even members of USAG, it is not required unless you want to enter USAG sanctioned competitions.

 

[Iwannabemargo]

yes BG does all the gymnastics insurance.

We pay a yearly fee £17 Bronze (equivalent to Rec to level 4), £41 Silver (for higher level gymnasts) and I believe Gold is for coaches so don't know that price.

We also pay a club membership fee, which depends on the club ( we pay £5 per year)

That covers all training at home gym, any other visited gym and competitions.

 

[Lilou]

I was wondering how other sports worked. I thought maybe figure skating was like gymnastics, the coaches who take skaters to competitions would be required to get certification from the national governing body of the sport. So in firgure skating, every instructor, at every ice rink in the nation, even those teaching the beginning pee-wee classes where they skate around with the bucket, is required to go through all of this certification? How does the national governing body keep track of all the coaches and classes at all the ice rinks?

Yes, for figure skating coaching, I join USFS and Professional Skating Association. At my rink, we 're required to teach Learn To Skate (the basic skills classes like you mention) in order to then coach the higher levels and bring the skaters to competitions. So, we're required through these organizations, not a governmental organization, to have training and certification that we can teach Learn To Skate, and then other various higher level skating. If there are instructors who are just planning to teach the beginning levels, then obviously they just join the two membership organizations and do the training relevant to them (and it costs less too). But yes, all rinks require that coaches be part of these organizations (there are even different membership levels to join based on what you're coaching) and have their own liability insurance. It seems to be set up a bit differently from gymnastics.

 

[wandrewsjr]

Yes, for figure skating coaching, I join USFS and Professional Skating Association. At my rink, we 're required to teach Learn To Skate (the basic skills classes like you mention) in order to then coach the higher levels and bring the skaters to competitions. So, we're required through these organizations, not a governmental organization, to have training and certification that we can teach Learn To Skate, and then other various higher level skating. If there are instructors who are just planning to teach the beginning levels, then obviously they just join the two membership organizations and do the training relevant to them (and it costs less too). But yes, all rinks require that coaches be part of these organizations (there are even different membership levels to join based on what you're coaching) and have their own liability insurance. It seems to be set up a bit differently from gymnastics.

Interesting. Yes I have heard of Learn to Skate. USAG does currently have a lower level of professional membership (Instructor) for coaches that won't be attending sanctioned competitions, that sound similar, just isn't required by them.(at least yet)

 

[wandrewsjr]

Interesting thread. Do you have places that teach recreational gymnastics like "Little Gym" and "Gymboree" in Canada and Great Britain? If so are these places also under the purview of your national gymnastics federations?

 

[Iwannabemargo]

not sure what those programmes are but we have rec only programmes in leisure centres, schools and the like, and yes they fall under the remit of BG.

https://www.british-gymnastics.org/clubs/club-support/resources-awards