WAG The place of loyalty in gymnastics?

[Natasha]

I have heard a lot this summer about loyalty. Gymnasts/families are labeled as being loyal or not being loyal to a club. Parents are being criticized for moving to a new gym because we are not teaching our girls the value of loyalty. I would really appreciate hearing some perspectives from other parents, coaches and gym owners. What is loyalty (from a gymnast as well as from coaches and owners- because I don't think loyalty should be a one sided thing) and how much importance should it have? At what point is someone being "disloyal" vs just doing what is best for them?

 

[MaryA]

As parents, I think our first loyalty is to our kids. Leaving a gym respectfully, honestly, and with gratitude for what that gym has done for your child isn't disloyal, I don't think. Just like, as adults, quitting a job to move to one that benefits us more in one way or another (financially, a better fit, etc.) is also not disloyal. It's just life. My daughter (and me too, to a lesser degree) struggled with feelings of guilt when we left her first gym, but everyone, even the coaches at the first gym, knew it was a good move for her.

 

[Canadian_gym_mom]

As parents, I think our first loyalty is to our kids. Leaving a gym respectfully, honestly, and with gratitude for what that gym has done for your child isn't disloyal, I don't think. Just like, as adults, quitting a job to move to one that benefits us more in one way or another (financially, a better fit, etc.) is also not disloyal. It's just life. My daughter (and me too, to a lesser degree) struggled with feelings of guilt when we left her first gym, but everyone, even the coaches at the first gym, knew it was a good move for her.

That was really well said, MaryA. I don't think disloyalty is really a thing in gymnastics. I think of leaving a gym and then bad mouthing them, treating former teammates and coaches poorly when you see them at meets, or not fulfilling your financial obligations are disrespectful actions. But we need to do what is best for our children first.

 

[iwannacoach]

Just like, as adults, quitting a job to move to one that benefits us more in one way or another (financially, a better fit, etc.) is also not disloyal. It's just life....... MaryA

You totally got it right.

My definition of loyalty is to give all you can while in a relationship, and to receive the same in return. I'm loyal to my wife and she to me, but if either one of us changes or is found to be a wolf in sheep's clothing, seems to not care about the other with no change in sight....... I think after a period of time trying to reconcile the change, new revelation, or remedy the indifference, it's resonable to make a decision to protect yourself.

So what if the gym either changes, is found out to be all gloss with no substance, or a new coach comes along and just doesn't fit with your child the way the old one did. What if your child changes and want's more, or less, and the program no longer fits her dream level. Do you just stay and suffer? I wouldn't, and have no expectation that you would either.

In the case of a new gym opening with new equipment and a reputable staff boasting sparkling credentials...... do you switch away from a program that's dedicated to the kids and provides capable coaches. I'd say you should stay and see how the gym responds to the new challenge and see if the new gym really is an obvious upgrade in terms of fit and dreams.

I had a similar experience early in my coaching career. A new gym opened up with a better facility, more equipment, and a coach who had worked in one of the hottest gymnastics communities in the country. A handful of my team, composed of mostly L5 and L6 kids, left because they were impressed with the new gym.... and saw me as an untested and inexperienced coach. Guess who had more growth and success......

All of the kids, whether they stayed or left, seemed to enjoy their gymnastics experience, except for the the kids who switched looked frustrated at meets. None of the kids that left ever saw the inside of a regional championship, and over half of the kids that stayed did.

Don't it always seem to go.......

 

[gymnastflip]

So what do you think about searching around different gyms. Surely it should be like work or school, if someone finds out you are thinking of moving they keep it to themselves, unlike the gymnastics world when it ends in outrage.

 

[gymnastflip]

*finishing last post*

I understand it wouldn't be loyal to look at other gyms and then boast when you're at your home gym, but if everything is kept quiet then shouldn't the gym have a obligation of loyalty to the gymnast and family aswell.

 

[Midwestmommy]

I think gymnastics is similar to most other areas in life. Loyalty is strong when incentives are aligned. When incentives aren't aligned, there are cracks and sometimes gaping holes in the bond and no loyalty.

For example:

Gym wants elite gymnasts, or at a minimum optionals with high probably of acheiving level 10 and a possible shot at college scholarship. Have a big optional team and a history of success..

An very talented optional gymnast,placed well in Level 9 or 10. Likely a high degree of loyalty both ways if it's perceived as the best gym in the area for her to acheive the desired next level. Gym invests in great coaching. Good communication with the coach (including head coach), gymnast and parents. The gym, gymnast and parents paying the bill are very loyal.

Same gym. Even though more than 3/4s of their optional team came from other gyms around level 8, they only tend to pick a certain body type for Level 4. Gymnast is eight years old. Loves gymnastics. Has been in Xcel for one year and placed in the top 5 at all her meets. Gym views Xcel as less important than other team. Doesn't pay much attention to Xcel.

Gymnast really wants to transition to JO. Gym sees her as over the hill and won't give her a chance on JO. They don't care about her Xcel success and when they evaluate her for team don't even want to see her skills. They only want to test the same things they do for 5 or 6 year olds. Her parents pay the same amount as all those preteam or new Level 3 six year olds practicing the same hours and getting "better" coaching in terms of coach's experience, willingness to spot, perfecting positions and skills. Even if she could some day do a double twisting yurchenko, this gym will never give her the chance to find out and won't notice much if she leaves. They have a waiting list. Head coach/owner doesn't know her or her parents and has never even noticed her. Incentives not aligned. No loyalty. This gymnast will leave. The gym won't really care (except maybe the Xcel coaches if they liked her).

Gymnast tries out at two other gyms which both offer her a place on JO. She chooses one, adjusts, and gets to know her new teammates, and transitions well to JO compulsory. She is enjoying gymnastics like never before. Competes new Level 4 and does great. Gymnast and parents very loyal to new gym that saw value in her dream and gave her a chance.

See, same gym same gymnast. Both loyal when incentives are aligned, not loyal when they aren't. And the sun comes up for another day!

End of story....

 

[happychaos]

What a great question gymtigermom! I agree with what others have said. I also think some gyms emphasize team spirit, which fosters loyalty. My DD's old team, state champs, winning 1st place at every meet except one, had NO team spirit. The girls were happy to win, sure, but there was no sense of working together, sharing a common identity, or cheering each other on. During meets, the girls never clapped or cheered as teammates performed or received their awards. When girls wouldn't perform to ability at meets, the number 1 thing they were worried about was what the coaches were going to say to them on Monday. These things do not foster loyalty to me, however there are a number of parents there who would never switch gyms. They swear that this gym is the best because they always win. So I guess I winning record does lead to loyalty for a lot of people.

DD's current gym has team parties, camp, and play days. The girls really seem happy when teammates succeed! The folks at this gym don't seem to take themselves to seriously, and I love that. I am looking forward to many years of loyalty to this gym

 

[Flipflopz]

If activities are going on at a gym that are negatively affecting my dd's self-esteem, we'd be out of there. My #1 loyalty is with my child.

 

[Fire.Wind.Rain]

There are two other gymnastic facilities within 200 miles of where I live. If I could afford to move, I would do it in a heartbeat. The only reason we stay is because my DD is passionate about her sport, and we don't have any other option for competition financially. I keep my extreme misgivings to myself, and have pride in specifically the girls themselves, because that's not where the problem lies. If I had option to leave, I would do so respectfully and with an explanation, and I would never talk badly about them to other team's Coaches. I've been questioned actually by other Mom's and other Club Coaches actually, because our head Coach has somewhat of a reputation, and I just stayed mum.

 

[kitkat]

Great question.
When we moved gyms last year - I personally felt very disloyal and unfortunately was made to feel that way by the head coach.
For the two years that my dd had been in competitive gymnastics - I always felt that she had a bit more talent then what they were letting on. I had always been very transparent about her goals with the club.
Something told me that I needed her to try out at another gym and have her evaluated for potential. So I took her to two gyms and both gyms hands down said she needed more. I went back to our old gym again and spoke to them again. Being very transparent about it and they said no she did not need more she was exactly where she should be.
Weeks later we moved her - and we were very happy with the career path our current gym chose.
So I think the loyalty has to go both ways. No gym wants to lose gymnasts but if its not in the best interest of the gymnast to stay at that location they need to recognize it and let them go.
In my daughter case her old gym could not train National gymnasts and that is where she needed to go.
I would move her again - if that was required to meet her goals and if the club could not accommodate these goals. I would always speak with the HC first and be very transparent about it. But in the end I am the mother and I will always do whats best for her without any hidden agenda.

 

[Ekat]

LOL. This post reminds me... a while ago my DD started gymnastics at one of the gyms. They moved her to pre-team after one session of rec classes and she was slotted to try out for a team about 8 months later. We decided we wanted to go with another, smaller gym. Being completely new to gymnastics (I did have a kid in other sports) I had her make a handmade thank you card (she was 5 at the time). I remember the look on the coach's face when she thanked her and gave her the card. The coach looked as if she was slapped in the face. I remember being totally flabbergasted and then angry. Fast forward to today, oh how much we learn in just a couple of years. Loyalty is such a weird misshaped beast in gymnastics, I think because the chance to peak in this sport is so short the girls cannot afford even a year of sub-standard coaching. I would always go with listen to you kid and you gut.

 

[my4buffaloes]

Each year we make a commitment to our team - for the season/year. Each year we talk about whether we want to continue. So far the answer has been yes. If there came a time we wanted to stop we would do so at the end of the meet season before a new year of commitment started. I think that is being loyal.

To leave mid-way through a season when your coaches, gym and team are counting on you is not being loyal. For example in January of the year we decided to move dd we knew we were going to switch. But we stuck it out and kept that to ourselves until May when all seasons had ended and we made the switch then. That is doing what is best for your family not being disloyal.

 

[iwannacoach]

Each year we talk about whether we want to continue. So far the answer has been yes. If there came a time we wanted to stop we would do so at the end of the meet season before a new year of commitment started. I think that is being loyal.

To leave mid-way through a season when your coaches, gym and team are counting on you is not being loyal.

I agree with what you're saying and support your position all the way. Well, nearly all the way because there are exceptional circumstances that would cause me to jump off the loyalty train. A few examples would be.....

A child with hotshot abilities, who's switched from another club, is placed into your dd's training group, and changes the dynamics of the group. To make matters worse she begins to divide the group into those who put her on a pedestal and those who don't, and then begins to belittle and demean her newfound outcasts while urging her ardent followers to do the same.

The coaches are oblivious to all that's going on. All they see is that some kids are thriving and others are beginning to show less energy and enthusiasm along with less team spirit. This leads to a few kids absorbing the stress until they tell their parents, who take time to work the issue out with their children but eventually have to talk with the group's head coach. That discussion takes place three months after the new kid showed up......

The coaches don't know what to do because they can't believe their new found star is creating a problem. All they can see is they have 4 kids getting along who are surging forward and two who seem to be lagging behind and not joining in with the rest of the group. It ends up coming down to a judgement decision that assumes the two kids falling behind are trying to make excuses, or are themselves trying to divide the team.

Another example.......

A married coach and spouse separate and file for divorce. Over the course of the next three months the coach is increasingly distracted at practice, late more days than on time, and misses a two to three practices every two weeks.

Add in the unsavory drama of discoveries as to the basis for the separation..... such as an affair with another team kids parent, or addiction problems. The team atmosphere is a mess and the kids have lost momentum and then begin to lose skills they'd learned just before the marital problems came about.

These are two very real examples that I've seen or been 2nd party to, and are far more common than any of us would like to see.

 

[my4buffaloes]

Yes IWC there are always unusual circumstances, but I would like to think that kind of real life drama is rare LOL...

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Obviously if you are ready to leave a good gym at the drop of a hat and your child is doing well, that would be disloyal. Example, over the past 5 years I have had two separate kids leave our gym a few months after making them State All Around champions, (not to mention our teams all did very well). These are kids that we obviously put tons of energy into and they left because they thought the grass was greener on the other side. (years later I can tell you that it wasn't). The irony is, both left for the exact same reason,,,
these kids did so good that they thought they were going to be the next olympians. They also thought they were being held back by the group that they were in,, well,,, again, years later I can tell you that was not the case. As the parents found out, it was the coaches and the groups that propelled these kids, not the other way around. Thats the problem with leaving a gym, it could be good, and it could be bad, but either way your old gym will be there to see it. Best of luck and make sure if you jump ship you do it for the right reasons , your child is on board, and you leave quietly.

 

[OwlGalLiz]

Great question.
When we moved gyms last year - I personally felt very disloyal and unfortunately was made to feel that way by the head coach.
For the two years that my dd had been in competitive gymnastics - I always felt that she had a bit more talent then what they were letting on. I had always been very transparent about her goals with the club.
Something told me that I needed her to try out at another gym and have her evaluated for potential. So I took her to two gyms and both gyms hands down said she needed more. I went back to our old gym again and spoke to them again. Being very transparent about it and they said no she did not need more she was exactly where she should be.
Weeks later we moved her - and we were very happy with the career path our current gym chose.
So I think the loyalty has to go both ways. No gym wants to lose gymnasts but if its not in the best interest of the gymnast to stay at that location they need to recognize it and let them go.
In my daughter case her old gym could not train National gymnasts and that is where she needed to go.
I would move her again - if that was required to meet her goals and if the club could not accommodate these goals. I would always speak with the HC first and be very transparent about it. But in the end I am the mother and I will always do whats best for her without any hidden agenda.

Though a few minor differences (one being he's a boy, and two being he's transitioned from rec. to team) I could basically have written this post. Loyalty needs to go both ways and as a parent I'm going to make sure I do what is best for him, with no hidden agenda.

 

[Natasha]

Thanks for everyone's replies. My daughter had been at her gym for 6 years, 5 years on team. I coordinated our home meet for the past 3 years and served as president of the Booster Club. Last year I was offered a job teaching preschool classes. I worked with the gym manager and office staff. The owner is a great guy, generous, and really cares about the gymnasts. He is also an awesome coach, but somewhat burned out and has too many other responsibilities. He coached my dd's group 2x per week for L6 and L7, but barely coached this past year at all after hiring another coach. My dd had has multiple coaches the entire 5 years (and not event coaching, just multiple PT coaches). The one coach who is excellent and has experience with upper level optionals reduced her hours starting this season to 1x per week maximum. The coach who my dd would now have over 60% of the time has not been a good fit for my dd for the past year and does not have a good track record of quality high level optionals. No coaches other than the HC/Owner who is not coaching can spot the L9/L10 skills.
Because of my loyalty to the gym, I only discussed the issues with the HC/Owner. We had several conversations, starting last spring. During the summer, a new gym opened up with a HC who has a philosophy of only one coach for each group (with possibly some event coaching). The HC of the new gym coached at my dd's gym when she first started team, so we knew him. In August we decided to change to the new gym after several discussions with the HC/owner who could not tell us he would start coaching again or had plans to hire another optional coach.
The owner was very hurt and questioned my loyalty. Ironically, because of my loyalty to him and the gym I kept our concerns between just us, so in other people's eyes (gym staff, parents) we left because the "mats are bluer, the allure of the new gym, etc....so it is actually our loyalty to the old gym that is making people question our loyalty!

 

[iwannacoach]

In August we decided to change to the new gym after several discussions with the HC/owner who could not tell us he would start coaching again or had plans to hire another optional coach.

It seems to me you covered every coulda-shoulda-woulda there was to consider, and then did the right thing.

 

[Deleted member 15064]

A married coach and spouse separate and file for divorce. Over the course of the next three months the coach is increasingly distracted at practice, late more days than on time, and misses a two to three practices every two weeks.

Add in the unsavory drama of discoveries as to the basis for the separation..... such as an affair with another team kids parent, or addiction problems. The team atmosphere is a mess and the kids have lost momentum and then begin to lose skills they'd learned just before the marital problems came about.

This sounds a lot like an episode (or 3) from Make it or Break It