This this this this this! If you were sure of what you wanted in terms of xcel or less commitment down the road, then I get it. But you aren't, and it sounds like your child is doing well. So, that is why, if in your shoes, I would stay my course. Because like many have said, it is MUCH easier to go to xcel in the future than the other way around...
Parents Thinking of switching gyms - advice please :)
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D
Deleted member 18037
Yep understand and again, easier to move down then up which was my point. And as you said originally, why did they pick gym 1 to begin with.....................
Sk8ermaiden
Proud Parent
Yes, we're in that position. DD is at an excellent gym that we LOVE. The coaching and program have been wonderful so far. And I tell you what - I discovered this site 3 years ago, at the beginning of preteam. And I read the advice to consider the road ahead before setting off on the journey. And I THOUGHT I had. We looked at the fees and hours all the way up to level 10. We thought the fees would probably be manageable, and though 26 hours looks like an awful lot - we realized that as teens, we spent at least that much time on our sports put together.
What I failed to fully comprehend, (in part because age-for-level was never laid out) was that at 8 years old and in third grade, they would want my daughter to be in the gym 4 nights a week, from the end of school until bedtime. And in 5th grade, 5 nights a week. And then add in Saturdays from junior high on. And it became apparent that we might have a very big problem here. When it's compounded with the fact that my daughter LOVES sports and would have to give them all up next year for gym...we're considering other, lesser, programs.
She's only 6, only been doing class for 9 months, and is ready for level 3? That would be a phenomenal gymnast! Does she have back handsprings, straight leg leaps (floor and beam), handstands to vertical (floor and beam), shoot through and mill circle? If the answer to most of these is no, then she's not ready for 3. She could do silver, though. If she has all this in such a short time, then Wow!, stay at the top gym. But seriously, if she doesn't have or is not close to having those level 3 skills, she will not be successful at her meets. There's a lot to consider here. Don't rush into any decisions, it's a long journey, do what's best for your child.
MILgymFAM
Proud Parent
OP, has she been actively invited to the L3 team, and which one (you mentioned a rec team too), or are you just guessing ahead on assumptions you have made? Like others, I guess the biggest questions is why you chose the farther gym to start her in. If it was for a good reason, the reason probably still exists. If you didn't know about the closer gym, or it was full, or something along those lines- then I would consider all options now.
The people who are telling you to look ahead are doing you a favor. It's crazy how quickly things can feel normal, even things are you wouldn't believe could ever feel that way. From the outside, the hours, the days, the money, the commitment, the injuries, the sacrifices- They are all abnormal. We (gymnast and their families) must seem absolutely insane from the outside. I can still see the craziness in my periphery, even though I know we are in the thick of it. Deciding upfront what you're willing to buy into is a smart thing. Then, if you're crazy like me, you let your kid(s) start down the road anyway.
The people who are telling you to look ahead are doing you a favor. It's crazy how quickly things can feel normal, even things are you wouldn't believe could ever feel that way. From the outside, the hours, the days, the money, the commitment, the injuries, the sacrifices- They are all abnormal. We (gymnast and their families) must seem absolutely insane from the outside. I can still see the craziness in my periphery, even though I know we are in the thick of it. Deciding upfront what you're willing to buy into is a smart thing. Then, if you're crazy like me, you let your kid(s) start down the road anyway.
now that you mention it, that does seem odd, particularly for a 6yr old. An 8-9 yr old with previous cheer or dance, maybe. And if this is the "best" gym in the area, with the optional success that were posted, then they are definitely making sure the girls have their skills before they begin competition season. It is possible that they are doing move ups now for a Jan comp season or maybe even picking a L3 team for fall of 2017. OP, so you have more info on this? It would help with decisions.
DD started at a bigger, farther away gym when she was 4 and in rec. The only reason we went there was because her best friend in preschool had signed up for a rec class there, on the one morning of the week they didn't have preschool, because her parents were friends with the owners. We didn't know anything about the gym, nor gymnastics. It was just one of many activities that dd did in preschool - art class, dance class, soccer, swimming, t-ball, music class, and I don't even remember what else. She didn't take all these classes at the same time, but just tried a lot of different stuff. Gymnastics, I thought, was just one of those classes.
I had no idea it was the "best" gym in the area. Or that dd would be asked to join pre-team within a few months, and that she would love it. Heck, I didn't even know what pre-team was. I certainly didn't know when I signed her up for her rec class there when she was 4 that a few years later, she'd be going 14-16 hours a week.
The drive there didn't seem like a big deal at all when we were going once a week in the late morning when there's no traffic, and you're going with a friend, so every class turns into a lunch and a play date afterwards.
But when team practices require driving in rush hour traffic and the drive all of a sudden can take 2-3x as long as when there is no traffic, and many more hours are involved, I certainly wondered whether we should change to a smaller, closer gym.
I had no idea it was the "best" gym in the area. Or that dd would be asked to join pre-team within a few months, and that she would love it. Heck, I didn't even know what pre-team was. I certainly didn't know when I signed her up for her rec class there when she was 4 that a few years later, she'd be going 14-16 hours a week.
The drive there didn't seem like a big deal at all when we were going once a week in the late morning when there's no traffic, and you're going with a friend, so every class turns into a lunch and a play date afterwards.
But when team practices require driving in rush hour traffic and the drive all of a sudden can take 2-3x as long as when there is no traffic, and many more hours are involved, I certainly wondered whether we should change to a smaller, closer gym.
Wow - first of all - thank you all for the responses! You have given me so much to think about!
I will try to answer some of the questions asked. We honestly picked gym #1 because they had classes at a convenient time and I "heard" they were good. I didn't do much looking around before signing up. I had no idea that they were one of the top gyms - no idea about USGA/TOPs/Elites... all of what gym #1 has. I learned quickly from the other gym moms and lots of research online and ChalkBucket some of the ins and outs of gymnastics.
She was invited to be part of the L3 USAG team at gym #1 - starting to train in June and competing in the fall 2016. (She has her BHS, straight handstand, shoot through and almost mill circle.) She has the option of dropping down to xcel if the L3 commitment is too much. She is about to turn 7 and seems to have some natural talent for it.
I see many questions of why switch what's working - there are a few factors - gym #1 is way more expensive than gym #2 (2k more per year) with the same number of hours of training. Gym #2 is also more convenient for our family - back roads vs highway during rush hour - ability to run errands during practice. It also seems to be more personal. Gym #2 is also a successful gym in the xcel state competition (top 2/3 teams in the state).
I guess it really does come down to what we see in the future. Do we want to make the sacrifices it takes for gym #1? Is gym #1 going to burn her out with the repetition of skills in L3? From a total outsider, it seems like xcel would be more fun as a gymnast. I know if she wants to reach a high level, L3 is the path. I'm not sure our family is ready for that type of commitment. I am all over the place - but I appreciate all the opinions. You have really given me lots to consider.
I will try to answer some of the questions asked. We honestly picked gym #1 because they had classes at a convenient time and I "heard" they were good. I didn't do much looking around before signing up. I had no idea that they were one of the top gyms - no idea about USGA/TOPs/Elites... all of what gym #1 has. I learned quickly from the other gym moms and lots of research online and ChalkBucket some of the ins and outs of gymnastics.
She was invited to be part of the L3 USAG team at gym #1 - starting to train in June and competing in the fall 2016. (She has her BHS, straight handstand, shoot through and almost mill circle.) She has the option of dropping down to xcel if the L3 commitment is too much. She is about to turn 7 and seems to have some natural talent for it.
I see many questions of why switch what's working - there are a few factors - gym #1 is way more expensive than gym #2 (2k more per year) with the same number of hours of training. Gym #2 is also more convenient for our family - back roads vs highway during rush hour - ability to run errands during practice. It also seems to be more personal. Gym #2 is also a successful gym in the xcel state competition (top 2/3 teams in the state).
I guess it really does come down to what we see in the future. Do we want to make the sacrifices it takes for gym #1? Is gym #1 going to burn her out with the repetition of skills in L3? From a total outsider, it seems like xcel would be more fun as a gymnast. I know if she wants to reach a high level, L3 is the path. I'm not sure our family is ready for that type of commitment. I am all over the place - but I appreciate all the opinions. You have really given me lots to consider.
D
Deleted member 18037
Only you can decide what works for your family regarding time and finances.
But if your kid loves it, aspires to do well and go far. A gym that trains elites and tops, is doing more with them then just repititve L3 skills. And yes there is a lot of repitition in any sport if you are going to do it well.
Clearly it is up to you as it is your family and again it will be easier to scale back at any time. Moving head the will not always be possible.
what area of the country do you live in (do you know what region for Gymnastics)? Does gym 2 have an optional program? Girls competing levels 7-10? If so, how do they score? Not necessarily their team scores but the individual girls? I ask because I think you said 10 (11?) hours at silver, which is a lot of hours, which leads me to believe this gym trains as if they were in compulsory and moves them to optionals after they do a couple levels in xcel. If they are successful doing this, it may be a good choice for you in terms of distance, cost, giving your daughter the ability to enjoy competition experience, etc. Has your daughter been to gym #2? Do you get a good feel for it?
Pardon my candor but all of the pro's for gym 2 seem more about you than your child. It's closer for you. You can go home. You find xcel more engaging. You're more comfortable with the local feel. That makes me wonder if you're cut out for what could be coming down the road because later on it will be about your child and the sport. I'm not trying to be rude but both my dad and I work in professional sports and we both see the sacrifices parents have to make to get their kids to the highest level in athletics -- time, money, commutes, being on teams with kids you don't know will all come into play.
We have a 5 yo and we had to decide last year whether to leave her in a smaller xcel only gym or move her to one that offers jo. We chose the latter for a multitude of reasons. First and foremost was her age. She has a lot of years left in the sport if she sees it all the way through and xcel will stop challenging her. Plus if there's ever a chance she will want to compete at college there is zero way for her to get there through xcel. College coaches won't even look at xcel athletes. Girls also often develop bad form in xcel because it's not usually as strict as jo. Sure it's more engaging but if you want to help her get the foundation to follow her gymnastics dreams then you have to go outside your comfort zone for her to do it.
As many before me have said, you can always go back to xcel but moving the other way can be a non-starter. Think about how her current gym got to the level they are today and think about how picky they are able to be with who represents them. Your daughter is one of the lucky chosen ones but if you send her back to a lesser facility and competing in xcel vs compulsory, then you've probably closed the door on her competing for them in the future because they will want girls trained in their way.
Now I don't know your family situation so I'm not judging anything. If you have multiple children then jo may not be feasible for your family situation. If that's the case by all means,get her out of the big name gym now so she doesn't get her hopes up. But if your concerns are just about what makes you feel good, then ask yourself if you think you'd be able to stick out 12 years of long hours in the gym. Perhaps even ask the gym for a team handbook so you can see the numbers -- both financial and practice hours -- for yourself. Then you and your family can see if gym is in the cards. If you know now it won't be, please don't let her stay in a gym where her hopes and dreams might be bigger than you're willing to accommodate. But if it's really only about convenience and size then give her a shot. She may dexude in a few years that it's not for her.
We have a 5 yo and we had to decide last year whether to leave her in a smaller xcel only gym or move her to one that offers jo. We chose the latter for a multitude of reasons. First and foremost was her age. She has a lot of years left in the sport if she sees it all the way through and xcel will stop challenging her. Plus if there's ever a chance she will want to compete at college there is zero way for her to get there through xcel. College coaches won't even look at xcel athletes. Girls also often develop bad form in xcel because it's not usually as strict as jo. Sure it's more engaging but if you want to help her get the foundation to follow her gymnastics dreams then you have to go outside your comfort zone for her to do it.
As many before me have said, you can always go back to xcel but moving the other way can be a non-starter. Think about how her current gym got to the level they are today and think about how picky they are able to be with who represents them. Your daughter is one of the lucky chosen ones but if you send her back to a lesser facility and competing in xcel vs compulsory, then you've probably closed the door on her competing for them in the future because they will want girls trained in their way.
Now I don't know your family situation so I'm not judging anything. If you have multiple children then jo may not be feasible for your family situation. If that's the case by all means,get her out of the big name gym now so she doesn't get her hopes up. But if your concerns are just about what makes you feel good, then ask yourself if you think you'd be able to stick out 12 years of long hours in the gym. Perhaps even ask the gym for a team handbook so you can see the numbers -- both financial and practice hours -- for yourself. Then you and your family can see if gym is in the cards. If you know now it won't be, please don't let her stay in a gym where her hopes and dreams might be bigger than you're willing to accommodate. But if it's really only about convenience and size then give her a shot. She may dexude in a few years that it's not for her.
twinmomma
Proud Parent
My then 7 year old had zero gymnastics/cheer/minimal dance and was picked up on team after 6 months in rec. I don't think it's that odd.
THIS THIS THIS. It's so frustrating to know that for your kid to go further in this sport they basically (and your family) have to give up anything outside of the gym. This is a big reason why I'm so thrilled my DD has switched from artistic to T&T. Fewer hours, more time to explore other things. For crying out loud, she's 10. Even she says "I don't want gymnastics to be my only sports experience."
If you aren't willing to put in the time and $$ into a big gun program for your kid, I'd definitely take 10 min from home over the 30 min in traffic - which is only NOTHING if you have nothing else going on in your family's life.
D
Deleted member 18037
^^^^^ It doesn't have to be all or nothing, necessarily. And yep you need to consider many things and search for the program that is the right fit for your family and gymmie.
We left a gym that wanted higher hours. They told me it would be impossible to find a gym where my kid could do JO without higher hours and weekends.
I found a gym where she does lower hours and JO. And yes it is a bit further. Better gym, training is excellent and they have some strong gymmies. She is able to have a life outside gym.
This gym is capable of getting her to L9, possibly 10 (but I don't see her wanting to get that far).
You really do need to consider what your gymmie wants and needs, is it a good fit for your family and then find a program that works for you.
And at some point if she is on a non JO path she will be unlikely to switch. But never say never either, a talented kid will have options. And there are some excellent Xcel programs out there as well. And really there are JO programs out there that are not as all consuming.
We left a gym that wanted higher hours. They told me it would be impossible to find a gym where my kid could do JO without higher hours and weekends.
I found a gym where she does lower hours and JO. And yes it is a bit further. Better gym, training is excellent and they have some strong gymmies. She is able to have a life outside gym.
This gym is capable of getting her to L9, possibly 10 (but I don't see her wanting to get that far).
You really do need to consider what your gymmie wants and needs, is it a good fit for your family and then find a program that works for you.
And at some point if she is on a non JO path she will be unlikely to switch. But never say never either, a talented kid will have options. And there are some excellent Xcel programs out there as well. And really there are JO programs out there that are not as all consuming.
raenndrops
Coach
You are forgetting that gym 2 uses Xcel IN PLACE OF Compulsories… that means they (should at least if they are saying they are using it "in place of") compete JO Optionals. In gyms that do this, which is very common in Region 8 at least, the girls do not develop bad form for several reasons: 1. They are judged on form in meets. 2. The coaches are preparing them for JO Optionals. 3. The gym takes Xcel seriously.
It sounds to me like the CURRENT gym treats Xcel as a rec team and might not allow crossover back into JO, but the CLOSER gym seems to have a plan to get the gymnasts who want it into JO Optionals.
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At my gym, Xcel and JO practice together with the same coaches and the same form expectations for skills. Girls who compete Xcel are usually older (previously competed L3 or L3 and L4) and are now in Middle School and on the Jr. High team (Which uses Xcel Platinum rules with high school bonus modifications). After the Jr. High season, the girls choose to either compete JO (those who were L4 and ready for L5 compete to score out and move to L6 - where they use their Jr. High routines, modified if needed) or compete Xcel Gold / Platinum (those who were L3 last season, but ready for L4 with some L5 skills score out of Gold and compete Platinum… those who were L3 and would have to repeat compete Gold). After a season of Platinum (or upon reaching the magic age of 14 or Freshman year as a Gold or Platinum), they can choose to score out of L5 and compete L6 (or get petitioned into L6).
cadybearsmommy
Proud Parent
I think it's important to keep in mind that not every family is out to make a professional or college athlete out of their child. Some just want their kids in the sport to have fun and that's ok. It sounds like you want more for your niece and that's wonderful but keep in mind with the very small percentage of gymnasts that ever make it to Level 10, much less college or elite, that is not always something that is a concern of a parent with a young gymnast just starting out. Some families don't want the cost or time commitment of JO, and choose the Xcel program instead. There's nothing wrong with that path IMO. I'm assuming since you are quick to make judgments on the Xcel program that you must have experience with that program and have personally seen Xcel gymnasts with bad form on a regular basis, but let me assure you that is not always the case. My dd competes Xcel and she certainly doesn't have bad form or bad habits and she will have the opportunity to compete optionals one day if she wishes b/c her gym uses Xcel instead of compulsories like the closer to home gym that OP is considering (as @raenndrops pointed out).
To the OP you have a tough decision and I think it will come down to what works best for you and your family, you could always give the closer to home gym a trial run and see how you like it if you think that you would be welcomed back at the other gym if it doesn't work out.
D
Deleted member 18037
Yep our gym has done Xcel and JO, IGC and JO. A BHS is BHS, front tuck is a front tuck and so on. As the coach says they teach gymnastics, period. There are no different teams. Team is team. We are not a huge gym but we have had a couple kids make it to Nationals and Div1 college.
given that your dd was picked up so quickly, I could see how you wouldn't think it was that odd. But in general, it is odd/unusual for this to happen. Particularly for a top-notch gym whose girls are well prepared before the season starts (and often have skills for the next levels up). I was not implying that the op's dd didn't earn it. I was just agreeing with a pp who said the op's dd must be really talented, if she had no previous experience.
Hello everyone - I see that this thread picked back up again. I am very thankful for all the points of view that everyone has given. I found it helpful to look at all sides of a decision. My DD, husband, and I all had a few discussions and decided on gym #2. It was the best choice for our daughter and our family at this time. She has been practicing for a few weeks, and I think that the environment is perfect for her, her goals, and her personality.
I do think it's so helpful for everyone with kids in the sport to understand all the options and what your choices mean further down the road. For our family, being on the JO track at the other gym, looking at so many hours and days per week in the next few years was not what we wanted. That's not to say that isn't the right path for others. Each child and family is different. I was glad to have the knowledge of what we were committing to, thanks to these message boards, before getting into something that would not work for our family long term.
Thanks for the great discussion!
I do think it's so helpful for everyone with kids in the sport to understand all the options and what your choices mean further down the road. For our family, being on the JO track at the other gym, looking at so many hours and days per week in the next few years was not what we wanted. That's not to say that isn't the right path for others. Each child and family is different. I was glad to have the knowledge of what we were committing to, thanks to these message boards, before getting into something that would not work for our family long term.
Thanks for the great discussion!
cadybearsmommy
Proud Parent
Thanks for the update! Glad your dd is enjoying her new gym and I wish her the best of luck!
raenndrops
Coach
Happy to hear that you are all happy with your decision
Good luck in the future!Let’s discuss technique!
How do you know if a club has good technique?
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