WAG What ARE the differences?

[LindyHopper]

I've seen something like "...L5 & L6 are so close skill-wise, they're really practically the same level.." so many times while reading the forums.

Other than the obvious difference of compulsory/optional, what are the distinct differences between the two levels? How are the required skills for level 6 more advanced, and what are they? Could you break it down by event?

Let's say you had trained L5, but never up trained. What would you need to learn to compete L6?

Thanks!

 

[curlygirls]

On bars, you would need a kip cast to handstand (to avoid deductions), and a flyaway out of a cast instead of a tap swing. On beam you would need a 180 degree split jump. On floor, you would need a 180 degree leap connected to another jump. Vault would be the same.

 

[LindyHopper]

On bars, you would need a kip cast to handstand (to avoid deductions), and a flyaway out of a cast instead of a tap swing. On beam you would need a 180 degree split jump. On floor, you would need a 180 degree leap connected to another jump. Vault would be the same.

Thanks for the fast reply! So if I understand correctly, the main difference isn't so much which skills you have, it's the proficiency with which you perform them?

 

[Mrs. Puma]

Thanks for the fast reply! So if I understand correctly, the main difference isn't so much which skills you have, it's the proficiency with which you perform them?

No, I believe the deductions are the same for toes not pointed/legs apart ect, but it's the angles and that extra swing in L5 on the flyaway. So if you did all the L5 routines in a L6 meet perfectly, you would still get dinged on casts not being to HS (L5 only requires "above horizontal") and the leaps on floor and beam being only 150 not 180. Also, I believe the run on vault is judged in L4/5 but not in L6/7? But someone wiser than me would know if the vault is judged differently in optionals after the run.

 

[raenndrops]

No, I believe the deductions are the same for toes not pointed/legs apart ect, but it's the angles and that extra swing in L5 on the flyaway. So if you did all the L5 routines in a L6 meet perfectly, you would still get dinged on casts not being to HS (L5 only requires "above horizontal") and the leaps on floor and beam being only 150 not 180. Also, I believe the run on vault is judged in L4/5 but not in L6/7? But someone wiser than me would know if the vault is judged differently in optionals after the run.

You are correct on the vault run and the pointed toes, ect.
There will be a deduction on bars for not coming within 20º of handstand on the cast, but the actual requirement is only cast to horizontal or above.
The thing is… in Level 6, you can get away with a cartwheel on beam (L4 skill) or even a handstand held for 2 seconds.
On floor, you could get away with doing ROBHSBHS (L4 pass) … or even a FWO-RO-BHS … and a Front tuck.

To sum it up… in some ways, L6 is harder… but in other ways, it can be easier.

 

[LizzieLac]

As has been said many times, it also depends on your gym's philosophy. Our gym, has similar requirements for level 6 as they do for level 7 in terms of what skills the girls must have and can compete. For us level 6 would be chosen if, for example, a gymnast had their giant on the pit bar, but not on the uneven bars yet.

All of our level 6 perform the same skills on floor as our level 7s do.

For beam, our level 6s are told they need a BHS, which you also need in level 7. However, level 7 has a special requirement of an acro series. Our level 6s would not be required to do the acro series.

From what I understand, other gyms would allow a gymnast to do level 6 with only the skills they had at level 5 and you would be able to put routines together that met the JO requirements, with the addition of the angles of jumps and casts and flyaway mentioned above.

Hope that didn't confuse you more.

 

[MILgymFAM]

For beam, our level 6s are told they need a BHS, which you also need in level 7. However, level 7 has a special requirement of an acro series. Our level 6s would not be required to do the acro series.

Just wanted to add a small correction here. L7 doesn't require a bhs, it requires a flight skill. My DD will do a bwo/bwo and a round off, which meets the L7 requirements.

 

[LizzieLac]

Just wanted to add a small correction here. L7 doesn't require a bhs, it requires a flight skill. My DD will do a bwo/bwo and a round off, which meets the L7 requirements.

I meant at my DDs gym.

 

[munchkin3]

The biggest difference is amplitude on everything!!!!! For bars, the casts must be to handstand and the free hip must be to, or above horizontal...IF YOU WANT A GOOD SCORE........yes I know everyone is going to post what the rules say, and he deductions, and what IS allowed.....

Reality- if your child is doing bars without hitting those handstands just know they will be lucky to get mid 8s and if they are not getting to horizontal on that free hip also, then expect 7s. For level 5, a bar routine that has cast a just above horizontal, and a freehold with good form, it should do well.......
The other events are the same, relatively.....the judges are a lot pickier in L6 and expect explosive vaults in L6 vs. good form and some blocking in L5.....floor and beam is much better in L6 because it's more fun than those boring compulsory routines.

I guess my biggest takeaway from L6 is the gymnast must show proficiency and decent mastery......you can't get away with shaky skills and iffy routines.......they must look effortless. L6 should be close to a L7 in order to do well.

IMO, if a gymnast is still missing some mastery on the scary skills like handstand flyaways, and back handsprings on beam, perhaps L5 would be a better fit, and then go to L7....otherwise, if they are very close to L7, but missing one or two things, then L6 might be better.....it all depends on the kid.

 

[ascarter1]

The biggest difference is amplitude on everything!!!!! For bars, the casts must be to handstand and the free hip must be to, or above horizontal...IF YOU WANT A GOOD SCORE........yes I know everyone is going to post what the rules say, and he deductions, and what IS allowed.....

Reality- if your child is doing bars without hitting those handstands just know they will be lucky to get mid 8s and if they are not getting to horizontal on that free hip also, then expect 7s. For level 5, a bar routine that has cast a just above horizontal, and a freehold with good form, it should do well.......
The other events are the same, relatively.....the judges are a lot pickier in L6 and expect explosive vaults in L6 vs. good form and some blocking in L5.....floor and beam is much better in L6 because it's more fun than those boring compulsory routines.

I guess my biggest takeaway from L6 is the gymnast must show proficiency and decent mastery......you can't get away with shaky skills and iffy routines.......they must look effortless. L6 should be close to a L7 in order to do well.

IMO, if a gymnast is still missing some mastery on the scary skills like handstand flyaways, and back handsprings on beam, perhaps L5 would be a better fit, and then go to L7....otherwise, if they are very close to L7, but missing one or two things, then L6 might be better.....it all depends on the kid.

AMEN! Dd scored low 9's in lv 6. Once she finally got that chs and free hip to handstand, she scored 9.6+ in lv 7. She is lv 7 state bar champ for her age group last season!

AMPLITUDE IS MAJOR!

 

[UnoMas]

Bars was the major challenge for my DD in new 6 but having said that she also did old 6 and got killed on her bars scores in that level. However her bars were also not great in old 6 but man the scores were downright ugly at times.

By her new 6 year her clear hips had improved and she got rid of that awful baby giant from old 6. She scored mid 8's on bars in new 6 and at her very last meet of new 6 scored a 9 on bars. That was the first year of new 6 though so coaches, judges, everyone was still learning.

Beam, floor, and vault were great at new 6. She's never had trouble with jump/leap angles though so that wasn't an issue for her.

I personally think L5 is a very valuable level.

 

[fuzi]

You are correct on the vault run and the pointed toes, ect.

Quick, minor correction: vault run is not judged in level 4 or above.

 

[munchkin3]

Quick, minor correction: vault run is not judged in level 4 or above.

I'm not sure 'technically' what is judged, but just be sure to know.......all of it is judged!
The judges are looking at the whole thing when you get to optionals.

A vaulter that runs super fast is going to score better. (All other things being equal)

This last season of 6, DD got high 8s all season ending with low 9s.....she had a very fluid routine missing the vertical handstands. Floor and vault scored way better than in compulsory.....I attribute it to some serious sass and great music and choreography which really matched my kid. Vault was her Achilles heel.....just could not get that explosive rebound.

In general, the kids who did really well at meets always looked close to L7s and a lot of parents at the meets were always complaining about it.....but they were not L7s YET.....they were missing something, or were not ready mentally.....the thing to remember once you jump from L5 to L6, is that it's a different world.....totally. You can't compare, you can't assess who is better or worse because everyone has different strengths.

 

[AgingHippie]

So, a little spin on this question. Is it usually bars or beam that keep a kid in 6 rather than 7? I know this is a personal experience type of question, just wondering what people have seen or experienced themselves.

 

[Clover]

So, a little spin on this question. Is it usually bars or beam that keep a kid in 6 rather than 7? I know this is a personal experience type of question, just wondering what people have seen or experienced themselves.

Could be either or both. At our gym girls are required to have a BHS series for 7 (generally, BWO-BHS or BHS-BHS, sometimes HS-BHS), and our girls are generally pretty strong on bars, so the series is what usually puts them at 6. About half of our 6s compete giants, but I can only think of one who had a BHS series in level 6 (and not sure if she even competed it).

 

[LindyHopper]

Bear with me. I like to talk things out to make sure I understand them. If I'm looking at the levels correctly, and trying to ascertain what USAG intended... (not how they're actually used)

1-3 developmental compulsory levels (not required)

4-5 required compulsory levels--used to display a mastery of foundational skills

6 first optional level and only level after 3 without a mobility score. Can essentially be skipped. Intended for those who are beyond foundational skills--hence the requirements for increased amplitude etc.--but are not quite ready for level 7, which is why skill requirements are essentially the same as 5. Kind of an optionals waiting room after you've "graduated" from compulsory gymnastics--waiting until you have those level 7 skills.

7-10 optionals. You have arrived!

 

[LizzieLac]

So, a little spin on this question. Is it usually bars or beam that keep a kid in 6 rather than 7? I know this is a personal experience type of question, just wondering what people have seen or experienced themselves.

At my DD's gym, YES, absolutely bars, because we require competition read giant at level 7. And beam as well - having the series and the BHS (what our gym requires) for 7 is tough.

 

[munchkin3]

So, a little spin on this question. Is it usually bars or beam that keep a kid in 6 rather than 7? I know this is a personal experience type of question, just wondering what people have seen or experienced themselves.

i would say bars too because of the giants. These need time to 'produce' - brand new giants look way different than mature giants.
But also the BHS on beam can be a factor. Some kids get giants way before the BHS on beam. Just depends.

 

[JoyAvenueMom]

Bear with me. I like to talk things out to make sure I understand them. If I'm looking at the levels correctly, and trying to ascertain what USAG intended... (not how they're actually used)

1-3 developmental compulsory levels (not required)

4-5 required compulsory levels--used to display a mastery of foundational skills

6 first optional level and only level after 3 without a mobility score. Can essentially be skipped. Intended for those who are beyond foundational skills--hence the requirements for increased amplitude etc.--but are not quite ready for level 7, which is why skill requirements are essentially the same as 5. Kind of an optionals waiting room after you've "graduated" from compulsory gymnastics--waiting until you have those level 7 skills.

7-10 optionals. You have arrived!

I think your assessment is accurate. However, I will add that Kipper's gym (and many others) uses the flexibility of L6 to "better" prepare gymnasts for L7+ (as an alternative to L5). Every gymnast trains for L6 after L4, and simply tests out of L5. Everyone trains and competes casts to handstand and BHS on beam, which gives them a tremendous advantage when moving to L7. This level is flexible enough to allow faster progressing kids to compete some new skills as they are ready (Front pike/layouts on floor, series on beam, giants on bars, etc.) while at the same time, providing a great landing place for a gymnast who is struggling on an event, or struggling with fears. Truly, bars is the only event which is "harder", but most kids will score higher AA in L6 than they would in L5.

 

[munchkin3]

Ours does the same...L4 to L7.....if missing giants, or BHS on beam- then go to L6.
Most kids do L6 simply because generally because getting those L7 skills are a BIG jump for most. (the giants, freehips to vertical, and BHS on beam....)
There are a few who do it every year....There are also a few who dont get the L7 skills and have to repeat L6 too...
There are many compulsory parents who fully expect their girls who finished L4 should have no problem getting to L7....after all, the only difference is 3 or 4 skills....
What people overlook is that these are big skills with a huge fear factor. Maturity, desire, and mental toughness begin to play a much bigger part. By mid to late summer these parents begin to realize how difficult the jump really is.
L6 is designed to make the transition easier.

Compulsory to Optional is BIG.