Parents Competition line up

[Bess]

Now I have issues? Because I mistook what someone wrote on the internet? Really.

Sorry to pop in again but I think she may mean issues in the sense of things that should be discussed with the coaches/owners. Not that you have "issues" in a derogatory manner. It sounds as if you and many other parents may have some trust issues stemming from what seems to be or comes across a favoritism. I believe as a gym parent you owe it to yourself and your child to be able to trust the coach in doing what is right for all the children. If the trust is not there perhaps it's time to open dialogue with the coach or owners to voice your concerns.

 

[wnl256]

Now I have issues? Because I mistook what someone wrote on the internet? Really.

But it is clear that you are having issues with the way the team is being coached, and that it is very upsetting to you. I'm sorry that you are going through this, and I hope that you find a way to resolve it.

Myself and others here have said that going first may mean the coach trusts your daughter to stick the routine, and may not necessarily be a way to manipulate the scores. Obviously none of us can know the exact environment at the gym or within the team. Is it possible that other issues with the team (and the "chosen one") are affecting your interpretation of everything the coach is doing, even things that aren't intended to be detrimental to your daughter? Tough to tell, I'm sure, when the coaches won't communicate anything to you.

 

[wnl256]

Sorry to pop in again but I think she may mean issues in the sense of things that should be discussed with the coaches/owners. Not that you have "issues" in a derogatory manner. It sounds as if you and many other parents may have some trust issues stemming from what seems to be or comes across a favoritism.

That is precisely what I meant to say. Immediately after I posted it I saw how it could be misread and changed it to "your team, team parents, ..."

There was also a comment about her response to profmom, but that was typed in before I saw the followup comments. Since it was no longer pertinent I removed it as well.

 

[GYM0M]

@ OP, I feel your frustrations. I have seen the line-up both ways. DD is usually rock solid on beam. She's gone first and she's gone last and she's gone somewhere in between and yet she holds the beam title for each of her L5 meets & 4/5 for L4. That being said, I truly feel for your situation. It is really hard to overcome teachers pet.........However, CB is for insight and advice. We cannot change this for you and quite honestly, when you get the point it sounds like you are at, nothing we say will make you feel any better or ease your frustrations. Take a deep breath & request a one on one with your child's coaches and express your concerns. If you do not like the outcome, well, then maybe an 'environmental' change is in order. Best of luck!

 

[Dka]

I used to feel this way when my dd first started competing ( when I did not understand anything about the sport and all of the routines looked the same, and we tried to figure out why the scores were different for the level 4 routines) now that she has been competing several years, I really do not think order matters especially at the higher levels in big meets. Most of the meets we attend the order is listed and changes for each event. In the rare cases the order is not, our coach asks them who wants to go first... My dd always asks to go first and it never seems like that makes a difference any more...

 

[magmom]

Oh, Chalkbucket, please forgive me. I am just not in the mood.

Im glad you found this entertaining. This has cause quite a bit of stress in our gym and people are ready to pull their DD from the program due to blatant favoritism. If you don't have anything helpful to say, then, please, just move onto another thread. I'm not your entertainment.

I disagree. You are quite entertaining.

Now I have issues? Because I mistook what someone wrote on the internet? Really.

You have coaches "conspiring" against your daughter. You have other parents up in arms and ready to pull their daughters from a program because another gymnast is doing better than some. And now you are willfully misunderstanding and lashing out at strangers. So, you tell me if you have issues or not.

 

[MILgymFAM]

If given the choice, our HC has the girls compete in height order, shortest to tallest. I believe she stated the rationale once, but I forgot what it was. I do know my DD would hate being first on beam, but that's because she has falls fairly often and doesn't want to start the team off badly. On the other hand she would love to go first on the other three events because she feels more solid and would like to get them done and cheer on her teammates. Since she is second tallest, however, she never gets to go first. I hope your dd is at least used to going first and has mentally adjusted for the nerves. It seems like a deeper and ongoing problem with the gym or your coaches though, and I would think a meeting to clear the air would be a good thing.

 

[cbifoja]

There are also some girls who get more nervous the longer they sit, so yeah, you would want those girls up first. However, as I can attest to, if someone has made up their mind that first means worst, at least in terms of scoring, there is nothing but time and experience that will convince them otherwise. I know because I was that parent. No one could have convinced me otherwise until I spent more meets in the seats.

Our coach bases her decisions on things like....who is having a good warm up, who is having a bad warm up, who is solid, who is mental, who needs time to continue visualizing, who is chomping at the bit and ready to show what they can do. And yes, sometimes who is short and who is tall. But never because she likes a gymnast more or wants anyone to fail.

DD's coach loves DD. She is her "special one". She buys her things and gives her extras all the time. However, when it came time for meets, last year, mine was up first on 3 of 4 events for most of the year. This year, she is up first on 2 of 4 events. But she is still placing exactly where she should be. She is getting beat by gymnasts who are better than she is and she is placing ahead of gymnasts who she is better than. There is no conspiracy by the judges or the coach. Her scores are pretty typical regardless of where she begins in the lineup.

 

[wgymmom]

I never even pay attention to where DD goes in the order. I had no idea it was anything other than random.

 

[Midwestmommy]

I think parents should just trust the coaches on this one. In terms of my own personal feelings on it..... I do think, especially at the first session on the first rotation, scores are a little low/held back for first few gymnasts.... Which does my daughter prefer though? First on beam, last on floor, doesn't matter on vault or bars for her. But I don't think she would ever say anything to the coaches. I think they generally put the strongest scorers later in the rotation . This falls squarely into the "let it go" category for me as a mom. I have enough stuff to worry about. For event order, I prefer meets where she does beam first..... for obvious reasons...

 

[Rumjello]

Oh, Chalkbucket, please forgive me. I am just not in the mood.

↑
Im glad you found this entertaining. This has cause quite a bit of stress in our gym and people are ready to pull their DD from the program due to blatant favoritism. If you don't have anything helpful to say, then, please, just move onto another thread. I'm not your entertainment.
Click to expand...
I disagree. You are quite entertaining.

↑

Now I have issues? Because I mistook what someone wrote on the internet? Really.
Click to expand...
You have coaches "conspiring" against your daughter. You have other parents up in arms and ready to pull their daughters from a program because another gymnast is doing better than some. And now you are willfully misunderstanding and lashing out at strangers. So, you tell me if you have issues or not.
magmom, Today at 3:15 PM Report​

 

[Rumjello]

OK so...here is the deal. I misinterpreted a post. I acknowledged that. Sometimes it's hard to do so with typing alone. I really don't need any attacks. If that's what you are here for, then, please by all means, go to another thread. It's really not helpful.


I do appreciate the other parents and coaches aspect on this situation. It does help me feel better. I'm just worried that my kiddo's self esteem is in for a run through with this situation. DD and the rest of the girls practice very hard and some even at home. Whilst special child gets privates. But no one else if offered them. Nor are they allowed. And, NO MAKE UPS!! Also, parents were told no one is to practice at home. LOL>...Its just a very weird vibe. We are not to approach coaches.. LOL....Mind you, we do not train Olympians. I think the gym is just really messed up. I'm not understanding what the goal is here. No other gyms in our area to convert to.

 

[magmom]

You are right, I should not have been so snarky with you. I've been dealing with a lot of negativity at the gym and I had no right to take it out on you alone.

If you really and truly think there is undue favoritism, go observe. And if you've observed it, talk to the coaches. I'm used to very little communication, but "none" is unacceptable.

In response to your original inquiry, from my observations, our coaches put out "strong" at the front, followed by "middling" and ending with more "strong".

Ps. Though I am sorry for singling you as the "straw who broke the camels back" so to speak, it prompted me to post my own rant (the contents of which have been eating at me for weeks now). And I'm glad I got it off my chest. So please feel free to be snarky with now. Really, go be harsh... I deserve it.

 

[Rumjello]

Glad I could take the hit. Seems to be running in the family.

 

[cbifoja]

You build self esteem by working through adversity. If your child is never "hurt", they will not have strong self-esteem nor will they be able to problem solve or weather challenging times.

A coach only has so many hours in the day. Perhaps your DD's coach, like mine, simply can't offer them to every child. Mine has weekly privates because she's had it that way for the past two years and the coach chooses to work with her and a few other children. But she couldn't give privates to every single kid who asks for them because she wouldn't be able to coach her teams!

At out gym, team doesn't do make ups. Ever. When would they make up???? All the girls on that level/team practice together and if they miss, they just miss. It's one of the incentives not to miss.

Now being told not to approach the coaches would bother me and I think you have a legitimate gripe there. That's weird and I personally couldn't live in such an environment. But again, I think we've been spoiled by a very loving, open coach who does a pretty decent job communicating with her parents.

 

[Rumjello]

The gym owner states, "we dont' do privates." So, one child out of 10 gets them on a weekly basis on our team. We practice 3 times a week, 4 hours a day, except other said child comes in for 2 hours here on a Sunday and then another 2 hours here during the week. WE do truly have some girls that could use that extra help. But, NOPE! DD has been just coming along smoothly. Hardly gets attention as well as the rest of team. Every practice is focused around one child. SO, I tell DD, " You have to work 10 times harder if you really want this." "You can walk away anytime." It's her choice up to a point until I deem it unhealthy

 

[twinmomma]

I actually notice the scores go DOWN as the meet goes on so far at the ones we've been at. So who knows how it really works.

 

[PalmTree]

Hi Rumjello, I feel that I need to respond and show you a different perspective on this issue. I am a coach and have heard similar worries from parents at my gym (although not this specific one). The common thread is that they all have to do with distrust in the coach caused by rumors, gossiping, having too much idle time, and presumption. However, parents with concerns have approached me (either in person, by phone, or email) and I was able to explain to them what is really going on. Every time the parent ended up apologizing because much of what they THOUGHT was going on was not at all. It sounds like this may be the case in your situation. I would strongly urge you and other parents to contact your coach at a convenient time for both of you and ask them about the line-up.

Basically, you need to let your coach do his job. It is his job to decide who to put in what order at meets, not yours. Actually, at many of the meets I've been to, I have not been able to choose order at all. As coachp mentioned, it usually comes down to height order (for vault), bar settings, who is too nervous to wait until last, who wants to go first, etc, rather than a true "worst to best" line-up.

I don't believe order makes a difference at all. If your child is great on beam, they will get a great score. Judges do not try to give certain kids lower scores than others. I am assuming your child is in compulsories, yes? Line-up makes absolutely no difference at that point. MAYBE later on in optionals, and that is a big maybe. What you need to understand though, is that the judges do not give a child extra points just because they go last. They take LESS DEDUCTIONS because the child does a better routine than the gymnasts before her. She would get a better score regardless of where she is placed in the line-up. If the last gymnast to go does a poor routine, she will not score higher than the gymnasts who went before her with better routines. People often like to act like judging is so unfair and so subjective, but it really is not that complicated at the lower levels. You could not imagine how many things there are to take deductions on, so just because you think a gymnast did a great routine (i.e., didn't fall) doesn't mean that all the skills were done correctly.

"DD has been made to go first on beam a few times. Though she is no Olympian, she is not horrible. She's had a solid beam routine this whole season and hasn't fallen off one time. There are a couple girls that score higher than her but she's around a 9.2 as an average. Why would her coach continue to make her go first? There are 4 other girls that go after her and fall repeatedly, or do not do a better beam routine. What is the reasoning behind this? I'm very frustrated by this and feel that it affects her AA score every time."

It has absolutely zero affect on her AA score. You should celebrate the fact that she hasn't fallen off the beam! That is a really great accomplishment! As for the girls who go after her and have a worse routine, are they getting way higher scores? If so, then you do not understand judging and these girls must be doing skills correctly despite falls. But I would assume that they are getting lower scores.

"It seems as if the judges hold out for the last girl for high scores. I have been paying attention to this. My daughter scores higher on the floor if she is 6th in line instead of 3rd. I have kept track of the line up. DD scores higher when she is towards the last of the line up."

No. Your daughter scores higher when she does a better routine.

"I really believe the coach manipulates the line up so that "the Chosen ONE" can score higher. Though, all our our girls have their strength and I feel that each deserve a fair shot at winning just as much as the favorite one does. I truly wish that there was a computer generated pick so that the coaches could not manipulate who goes first. That way, each girl is judged on her own ability and not riding on the coat tails of the other girls. Most of us parents are tired of our girls taking the "hit" on those scores."

Let me tell you something. I love all my gymnasts equally, I really do. But a few of them are annoying, or talk too much, or are not good listeners. It is human nature to enjoy the company of some people more than others, and that goes for teachers and coaches as well. Does this have absolutely anything to do with how I coach them? NO. Just because a child annoys me, I do not try to sabotage their gymnastics!! Do you have any idea how hard a coach works to get kids to be good at this sport? It is an endless, sometimes thankless job. I have a kid who farts in my face sometimes when I spot her, so do I teach her incorrect skills as a punishment?! Absolutely not! I teach her to squeeze her buttcheeks more! When we are out on the competition floor, I want every single one of my gymnasts to get a 10! But the reality is that someone has to be the best. Someone has to be the worst. Not all gymnasts are created equal. It sounds like "the chosen one" is better at gymnastics than the other girls in your group, and that is something you need to get over. Maybe next year, YOUR daughter will be the best in the group and people will make up rumors about YOU instead. Some people always have to justify why they/their child is not the best. Don't be one of those people! There is nothing wrong with not being the best right now.


"The favorite is really nothing special. Just her mom party's with the coaches so I guess that leaves the rest of us out of luck. "

WOW excuse me but that just struck a huge personal nerve because the same kind of rumors were spread at my gym about me!! So you say that your coach "party's" [sic] with this mother? And you know this how…because you are there partying as well? NO, you have heard through the grapevine, and whether or not it is true, it is absolutely none of your business who the coach is friends with!! You need to take a big step back and let go of the drama you seem to crave. Otherwise you are on the train to making your child hate gymnastics or being kicked out of the gym with comments like that.

 

[PalmTree]

The gym owner states, "we dont' do privates." So, one child out of 10 gets them on a weekly basis on our team. We practice 3 times a week, 4 hours a day, except other said child comes in for 2 hours here on a Sunday and then another 2 hours here during the week. WE do truly have some girls that could use that extra help. But, NOPE! DD has been just coming along smoothly. Hardly gets attention as well as the rest of team. Every practice is focused around one child. SO, I tell DD, " You have to work 10 times harder if you really want this." "You can walk away anytime." It's her choice up to a point until I deem it unhealthy

Again, how do you know about the child's privates? Are you there when she has them? Do you ask her parents whether or not she does them? It is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. EVery practice is focused around one child? If that's true, then why are you there?

 

[Rumjello]

Whoa! You sound very defensive. Might you just be my DD coach? LOL. It's a scam. From the line up, to the judging, to coaching. At least at this gym. Now, if you don't operate that way as a coach, then my hat's off to you. But, do NOT condone favoritism because no parent likes it. The ONLY reason this girl scores higher is because she is given privates, and extra practices. Where as the rest of the team are not allowed these things. And I know this to be true because her MOTHER can't keep her mouth shut about it as well as her going out and getting drunk with the coaches.