WAG Why No offseason

[Deleted member D3987]

all good points, but consider this...

"Time off actually increases the injury rate" - would really love to get some sports medicine related literature on this "fact." especially as it relates to overuse injuries vs acute traumatic injury (sudden fall, achilles rupture, ACL tear).

Sands and George and Bompa.

"The body needs to be maintained in peak strength and flexibility" - this is true for many sports with offseason... that's why there's off season conditioning and strength work without overusing the same joints over and over (pitching/throwing, etc)
This is precisely what a competent club does thru macro and micro training cycles. most of us do not do volume training 12 months out of the year. some do though. somehow they think it gets the kids better.

"The way HC explains it is that it takes a minimum of 5-1/2 hours a week to MAINTAIN current skill level." - that's what our coaches say also... but consider how many girls miss large chunks of time due to various injuries and still make it back to their current levels (including numerous elite gymnasts).

Maintaining Level 8 is akin to T Ball when compared to 9 & 10. and not "numerous elites". only freaks of nature...like Maroney.

College gymnastics mandates an offseason: " NCAA sanctions say that there can only be official team practices/meetings 20 hours of the week during competition season and 8 hours a week out of season. "
and who has the most ACL & PCL & achilles ruptures & labral tears (hip & shoulder)? the college coaches HATE the mandates. this is WHY the kids come home over summer and train at their gyms. or go to camp.

While it is true that training less hours may mean slower progress- I'm in no rush. My daughter is 10 finishing up level 8 and has no aspiration for elite gymnastics. I'd much rather her have longevity in the sport than early success and burnout. She used to love going to gym, always asking for extra hours. Now, it feels like a job - one that she has to do for another 8 years!

while i agree with the "job" part, the reality is that they all vacillate several times during their career. and maybe she is experiencing 'over training'.

i understand that you are a Radiologist. but you must know that Gymnastics is way down on the list (48th) in reported trips to the emergency room. our problems pale in comparison to the others. and many of the other activities have the same and consistent issues that we do. it is a part of sport. and back in the day when everyone trained less hours? we had MORE injuries because our bodies were not fit enough for the activity and the skills that we pioneered.

you can make an argument against 'specialization'. that would be reasonable, but i don't think we'll be turning back the clock to the 60's & 70's anytime soon. but the fact is, the gymnastics body is the most well trained body of them all. we use our entire body. all 206 bones and all 650-850 muscles, tendons, etc; are constantly under work. and if gymnastics training was not being executed properly, they all would be dropping with Rabdo such that they do in other sports.

and you may have no intention of considering the Elite level for your child. but you can't get to a level of gymnastics required to be a Level 10 training less than approx 15 hours a week. there is so much to be learned that it's not possible on less to be competitive. it's quite a conundrum.

 

[Gymishome]

==
You are here online because you want to know what everyone thinks of your plan. so here we are.

It sounds like she is already burned out, so a little time off would be good, 2 weeks, but anything longer than that could completely backfire on you.
If you stop flipping, you lose your spacial awareness. This equals the potential for catastrophic injuries.
It also does not take proof (just ask any coach) that a long time off equals a loss of strength, which equals the potential for all types of injuries.
Not to mention the absolute frustration an athlete goes through when they try to return, (then pull something, miss a few more weeks).. Then they get really depressed and are often lost to the sport. Also fear issues could arise during layoffs. Kids grow and have vestibular issues etc... VERY COMMON

Yes many gymnasts and athletes make comebacks after injuries. And any gymnast will tell you how physically and mentally hard it really was. And many will tell you that they didn't ever make it fully back or sadly at all.

Colleges have a mandate for all sports. And I can tell you with 100 percent prof positive that these gymnasts work out all summer back at the gym they came from. I can also tell you that they coaches want them to workout. Not to mention the injury rate in college gymnastics is very high. hmmm.... And it is an issue...

Every word of this post is golden. Maybe now you'll get it.........

 

[Deleted member D3987]

If you asked my husband this question, he would launch into his theory that gymnastics is a cult...

I'm also a physician (radiologist) and have access to a number of orthopedics surgeons and sports medicine colleagues - she has a stress reaction involving one of the bones of her elbow and their recommendations was to take 4-6 weeks off or risk an impending stress fracture... She will probably still be at gym stretching, dancing, leaping, running- just laying off the elbow for awhile... The coaches weren't thrilled with the plan but understand that we are in it for the long run and would rather her take the time off to heal then to suffer a more serious injury and quit.

I'm still curious how college gymnasts are able to maintain skills with the limited training hours and off-season (compared to elite and level 10 gymnasts)

LOL MaryA! (does he watch the Following/Kevin Bacon)

and Doc, you will get NO argument or debate from me on the 10 year old elbow. stress reactions are common. sometimes idiopathic. sometimes not. the biology of the body is complicated when sports are introduced to it. but if an elbow Doc said "take 4-6" then you must. a stress fracture is the least of our concerns with the elbow. but OCD IS. her coaches are ignorant if they're "not thrilled with the plan". here i agree with you. longevity. with conditions like OCD, and others, that curtail our training for over extended periods of time, the coach is stupid if he/she thinks those days don't add up and interfere. the road to Level 10 will be all uphill under those kinds of conditions.

 

[tomtnt]

LOL MaryA!

and Doc, you will get NO argument or debate from me on the 10 year old elbow. stress reactions are common. sometimes idiopathic. sometimes not. the biology of the body is complicated when sports are introduced to it. but if an elbow Doc said "take 4-6" then you must. a stress fracture is the least of our concerns with the elbow. but OCD IS. her coaches are ignorant if they're "not thrilled with the plan". here i agree with you. longevity. with conditions like OCD, and others, that curtail our training for over extended periods of time, the coach is stupid if he/she thinks those days don't add up and interfere. the road to Level 10 will be all uphill under those kinds of conditions.

Yes, at our gym, we had two girls who both had Panner's (OCD of the capitellum) requiring surgery. One girl returned and is training 10 again. The other girl never fully recovered and has quit gymnastics (extremely talented, had elite aspirations). When my daughter started complaining about her elbow, I became very OCD about OCD (see what i did there?) .

Truth be told - I'm playing devil's advocate in many of these arguments mainly because they are interesting to me having both a daughter in gymnastics and seeing these types of injuries in gymnasts and other athletes as part of my work. Since we started gym, we've seen numerous team mates quit for various reasons but mainly related to difficult in transitioning from 8 to 9-10, injuries, and loss of interest. Part of this is wondering out loud how we can keep the girls in the sport longer.

 

[tomtnt]

==
You are here online because you want to know what everyone thinks of your plan. so here we are.

Actually, I don't really care what everyone thinks of my plan- the plan is between the coaches, surgeons, and parents.... I'm on a online gymnastics forum to discuss gymnastics with others who are interested in gymnastics.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

hahahaha i got the OCD reference. some of us, as the athletes get older (over 15) we compete the kids less than what they did when they were younger. we also increase their conditioning. we volume train THAT. but not repetitions of gymnastic skills. for example, you just CAN'T perform 10 double layouts on hard top unless you want trouble. the mantra with most Elite coaches is...less is more. or as Valeri says..."do your medicine". and he doesn't mean double layouts. he means basics, correct body positions, conditioning, etc;

and some kids bodies are just not cut out for longevity in gymnastics. and you find this in other sports as well. being at the top of a sport field is grueling. and without good biology, athlete shelf life in their sport is diminished.

 

[txgymfan]

Just curious,

Do college gymnasts pay tuition for the summer at their own club if they don't stay at school for "optional training"?

 

[Deleted member D3987]

some do. most don't.

 

[wandrewsjr]

Just curious,

Do college gymnasts pay tuition for the summer at their own club if they don't stay at school for "optional training"?

Agree with Dunno that most don't. Coaches LOVE having the college girls back in the gym on their breaks, setting an example for the kids. Don't tell the college girls this, but I think most coaches would pay THEM to have them back training at the gym when they are home.

 

[txgymfan]

That's what I thought. A gym grad competing on scholarship is a great role model for little gymie and their gym moms. I'm glad the coaches and owners recognize that.


sorry for the OT. To the OP I'm glad you have a plan to give your DD the mental and physical break she needs this summer. I hope she finishes the summer ready to go hard.

 

[bookworm]

1.

I'm also a physician (radiologist) and have access to a number of orthopedics surgeons and sports medicine colleagues - she has a stress reaction involving one of the bones of her elbow and their recommendations was to take 4-6 weeks off or risk an impending stress fracture...

2. I'm still curious how college gymnasts are able to maintain skills with the limited training hours and off-season (compared to elite and level 10 gymnasts)

Point 1: I'm guessing your daughter has an OCD type presentation in her elbow, and that comes from overuse so I can see where your questions are coming from. My daughter had OCD of the elbow and the resting alone did not help, and she required surgery to fix it...post surgery, her orthopedic surgeon said "you need to consider what her training will be like after she recovers...if she goes back to the same schedule of repetitions, it will happen again, and she'll be done"...the gym we were at at the time didn't see that as an issue and refused to moderate her training so we ended up moving gyms and she has thrived and we never looked back, and she (knock on wood) has not had any further issues.

Point 2: College gymnasts (have one of those too) maintain their skills because in addition to their "limited training" (defined by the NCAA as 20 hrs/wk) there is also the "voluntary" workouts that no one dares miss

 

[Mom2twingymnasts]

I now feel strongly that you can't take breaks like that in this sport. My daughter has been injured since July with multiple injuries which I contribute to her being off and trying to get back too quickly each time. She took somewhat of a break after State Meet 2013 due to strep throat and ear infections followed by flu followed by "I'm so behind and I can't do this" and homework... so only going a couple days per week until school ends. Fully back at it by mid June and has an injured left shoulder by beginning of July - just strained or overuse. Finally see Ortho and he prescribes rest for 2 weeks. First day back is at a gymnastics camp, starts in dance rotation and just the lift of arms & shoulder for a leap makes is clear that she is not recovered. Go to Sports Dr and starts PT. Able to start gymnastics again a week before another gymnastics camp. A minor bar mishap which likely would have been no issue if she was in gymnastics condition but since she wasn't her right shoulder just locked up. She couldn't lift it above 90 degrees, rib was out, caused pain up neck and down leg. A couple MRIs, PT, and finally tried deep tissue message/stretch which finally helped. This had her out for months and really only allowed her to do limited leg work and leg stretching. She just returned about 5 weeks ago and after being back for 2 or 3 weeks, she misses her hands completely while doing a back handspring on the beam and is just now slowly returning from the concussion.

Please don't take 6 weeks off!

 

[Mom2twingymnasts]

I had missed the part about your daughter having a stress fracture. So you need the time off. Just be smarter about her return than we were. Good luck!

 

[Ingwe]

I have been following this thread closely as my daughter was out of the gym completely for 6 weeks following a Fracture to her vertabrae. (this was not an overuse stress fracture but from a rather nasty mishap on bars) She was braced and was not allowed in the gym at all. The only thing she was allowed to do is walk. She was taken out of the brace last week and allowed to return to the gym for conditioning only. She is still not allowed any backwards motion.
Reading the posts about how taking time off makes it hard to come back, more injuries, fear issues ect.. Kind of freaked me out. After reading Mom2twingymnasts I think maybe we are taking the right approach..Slow and steady in order to prevent any type of re injury...

Anyone have any experience coming back from this type of injury?

 

[bookworm]

My daughter with the OCD repair was out of the gym completely for 6 months...and came back without incident...and years down the road, has been fine

 

[exgymnastmomx3]

I'm also a physician (radiologist) and have access to a number of orthopedics surgeons and sports medicine colleagues - she has a stress reaction involving one of the bones of her elbow and their recommendations was to take 4-6 weeks off or risk an impending stress fracture... She will probably still be at gym stretching, dancing, leaping, running- just laying off the elbow for awhile... The coaches weren't thrilled with the plan but understand that we are in it for the long run and would rather her take the time off to heal then to suffer a more serious injury and quit.

I'm still curious how college gymnasts are able to maintain skills with the limited training hours and off-season (compared to elite and level 10 gymnasts)

But you didn't say in the original post that she has a stress reaction. My 3 daughters had many injuries over the years- stress fractures in their backs, an SI dysfunction, hamstrings and quad pulls, etc. They definitely had their training plans modified and had some time off from gym per Dr., however, they also were in physical therapy and had conditioning plans and were mostly at the gym doing what they could do depending on the type of injury.
I have many friends with daughters competing at various level colleges-D3, lower D1, and upper D1. They don't have much time off at all-they are still year round gymnasts working out at their local gyms during summer and have to be back for any regular college breaks "spring/xmas/etc." a lot sooner and get a much shorter break than the average kid.

 

[Mom2twingymnasts]

her orthopedic surgeon said "you need to consider what her training will be like after she recovers...if she goes back to the same schedule of repetitions, it will happen again, and she'll be done"...the gym we were at at the time didn't see that as an issue and refused to moderate her training so we ended up moving gyms and she has thrived and we never looked back, and she (knock on wood) has not had any further issues.

@bookworm What was your DD path back? Was the focus on conditioning at the beginning? I was going to look into a sports trainer to help get my DD strong again. I would appreciate any advice on what the path back should look like. Thanks!

 

[gasrgoose]

I'm always curious how and why gymnastics has no real off season and whether this contributes to the high injury and attrition rates. It seems every sport, even at the highest levels, has an off season for rest or conditioning but in gymnastics, the girls are either competing or uptraining.

It is very difficult to compare gymnastics to other sports. This sports requires the body to perform at a higher level than any other sport. AND to do so at a very young age. Pound for pound and for their age gymnasts are the strongest and best conditioned athletes. As Dunno said, you can maybe get away with it at 10 years old and level 8, but it most likely would be extremely detrimental at higher level and/or older age. You and her coaches know your child the best and will obviously do what is right for her.

 

[gymgal]

Just curious,Do college gymnasts pay tuition for the summer at their own club if they don't stay at school for "optional training"?

I would think they have to. Otherwise they are receiving a service related to their sport for free, which would be in violation of the NCAA. But many gymnasts work at the gyms as well so it could be a barter situation... coaches??

 

[Gymishome]

I would think they have to. Otherwise they are receiving a service related to their sport for free, which would be in violation of the NCAA. But many gymnasts work at the gyms as well so it could be a barter situation... coaches??

Ours don't pay. They are like family and it's enough that they are role models to the younger ones

ETA-I just noticed the last part of your post. They do coach also. So I guess kind of is like a barter situation.